Guide to Poaching on Your ATV

[Elkhunter]

I couldn't agree with you more Ithaca. Hopefully something productive will come out of it. If you see anything on the outcome of the meeting, would you please post it for us. I am sure the outcome will not please everyone, and that is OK, as long as it is a step in the right direction.

 

[MEATHEAD]

I agree with you Elkhunter. You have to start some where.

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The last word on this for me will be that the ATV's, without any doubt at all, played a huge roll in their success. It was the cheapest, easiest and most efficient way for them to pull off these crimes. Thats why people poach, they arent committed enough to do it right and need an advantage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So by this logic, every time some thing new comes out, it should be highly regulated to prevent misuse by the darker side of our society, as others have stated, it is not the tools fault or problem to this whole thing, it is the person using it and they alone should be penalized for the misuse, with this new confiscation, the game dept. should have more tools, originally used for wrong, now used for right.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> My question about the whole thing is just how this went on for TEN YEARS without being stopped. Sure, other ATV users didn't turn them in, but what about gubmint employees, hunters, fishers, bird watchers, hikers, boot-knockers, tree huggers, arsonists, and insane hermit unabombers? Did NO ONE else venture that way, see these trails or report them over TEN YEARS? Or did the complaints or reports just get ignored? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When I first read the first post, this is the first thing that came to mind, plus, there should have been someone in an official position that should have noticed these trails in the first place...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Yes there is MEATHEAD. Close down all the forest to ATVs and ban the use of ATVs. It is a well known fact that anyone who uses an ATV is a fat assed, lazy poacher and does not belong in our forests because if you can't cut it, you do not belong there. It is the ATVs fault for damage in the forest and the illeagal killing of animals and the person driving it and shooting the animals is only along for the ride, perhaps held hostage by the ATV. It is the ATVs fault that the laws are not enforced. It is the ATVs fault for not having gates big or wide enough to prevent the fat assed lazy slobs from going around them. May as well blame the ATV for everything else that is wrong while we are at it. Hell they add to air polution also so get rid of them.
I see a lot of good responses about the problems with ATV misuse and a few that have the same negativity all the time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very good post, if "all" ATV riders are put in this category as some on this board would have every one believe, then they in reality wouldn't have the where with all to put this much energy into poaching this many animals. Poaching has been going on for as long as there have been regulations against it. Does one think that the poachers in Africa that are decimating the endangered species there have all this modern stuff and toy's to do what they do. I don't think so, but they are still wiping out huge amounts of animals even the aid of the ATV, even if it means death. So, it is the individual that should pay the price for their transgressions, not the tools of the trade...

 

[MEATHEAD]

Some people poach just to see if they can get away with it.

Some people on here drink and drive which is breaking the law, but will still do it. It may not be but one beer or drink or maybe ten it don't matter we're breaking the law.

I don't care what you take away, some people will still poach.

 

[RockyDog]

Heres one of the articles on the poachers. Too bad it doesnt show all the pictures of the rack, silencers, spotlights and ATVs. Im not for banning all ATVs just because of these guys. I am personally sick of too many ATVs in most areas.


http://www.missoulian.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2003/January/26-687-news01.txt

 

[dgibson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Several neighbors said they have reported suspicious activities - including shooting at night, spotlighting and driving all-terrain vehicles on roads closed to motorized use - to authorities over the years. Some neighbors said they believed the Ruths had created a network of unauthorized trails for their four-wheeler ATVs through nearby land owned by the state and Plum Creek Timber Co. And some neighbors who are ardent hunters and outdoorsmen, and longtime residents of the area, said they have noticed a marked decline of game - especially big buck deer - in the vicinity in recent years.

Montana game wardens said they also suspected the Ruths of poaching for a number of years but could never make a case.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But wardens could never catch them in the act of poaching, he said.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But the wardens couldn't prove it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Couldn't, or wouldn't? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"I've been after those guys for seven years," the game warden said. "It wasn't for the extreme amount of killing that it possibly could be - the extent we found surprised me - but just for poaching, and spotlighting, and going into closed areas. He was pretty bold. I've worked on 'em. I feel real bad I didn't get 'em sooner. But you know we're only 70 game wardens in the state. We'd have to come out and camp on 'em to catch 'em."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So why didn't they? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"It was the second time I caught him up there. Both times he had a kid with him. I called TIP-MONT (FWP's poaching hot line) both times to report him. As far as I know, nothing happened to him. He'd be gone by the time anybody got there."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Bah!

 

[ELKCHSR]

I hadn't seen this part, I will cut and copy and present it at one of the next meetings I go to, then ask them if their people is doing the jobs they are supposed to, then why aren't the authorities doing what they are supposed to...Thanks...

 

[MEATHEAD]

Sounds like some LAZY FAT_ _ _ GAME WARDEN, should have been doing his job a little better. From what I just read they knew the atv trails where there.

 

[BuzzH]

Lets see, MEATHEAD and a bunch of others said dont blame the ATV, but boy, you sure are quick to put the blame somewhere.

I dont think it was the game warden, I just dont think anyone realizes that there is about one warden per county in MT. I also dont think most realize exactly how careful and sure the wardens have to be to make a case, and futher yet, make the case stick.

I'm just glad they got nailed.

 

[MEATHEAD]

All I was saying was the game warden said he had been after them for seven years. Alot of the time they let things go trying to catch them with somewthing bigger,well that may be good to catch them with something bigger but alot of your game was killed while waiting for the big one.

I wasn't there, I may have been to quick to judge. But if you have ATV trails going thur the woods for seven years on illegal trails I think you should have been able to catch them sooner.

 

[BuzzH]

Meathead, I'm sure all the warden for Missoula County had to do was watch one family 24 hours a day seven days a week. In between times, when he wasnt busy, he probably hung out at the local doughnut shop.

Plus, theres so many renegade ATV trails in Montana, seeing one more wouldnt raise any suspision or interest. ATV riders make illegal trails all the time and for all kinds of reasons.

 

[MEATHEAD]

I think they need to have stiff fines or penalty's for doing so.I have a atv that I use when I have game down, if it's where I can.I don't ride on or make renegade trails.

 

[BuzzH]

Meathead, I agree with you, but theres many problems with shutting this kind of behavior down.

First of all you need lots of law enforcement, most people think "BIG BROTHER" is watching too closely now.

Second, that would take more money. That would mean more taxes...I dont believe I've ever heard more bitching about a subject in my life. So, thats a problem.

Third, how do you keep track of thousands of ATV riders 365 days a year?

Fourth, the agencies have to press charges, please refer to first and second reasons, as they'd need more personel and more money to do that.

The list goes on and on...you could pass a jillion other rules, laws, heavy fines, etc. but its pointless without enforcement.

 

[Ithaca 37]

I think the only practical solution is to put such a severe penalty in place they won't risk getting caught, even if it's a one in a thousand chance---which is about the actual odds. The penalty should be confiscation of the ATV.

The only other solution is to ban them completely. The ATV clubs that claim to be concerned about the problems with ATV abuse should be lobbying for the severe penalties. The fact that they are not tells me they're not serious about solving the problem.

 

[Tom]

That's a great idea, confiscate the ATV, take away the hunting rights, take their guns, fine them big time. Game wardens can do that down here as I understand it.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-01-2003 18:31: Message edited by: Tom ]</font>

 

[MEATHEAD]

OK, I agree with BuzzH, So what is your solution for the problem

Ithaca 37, I agree with you on your first statement, but on your second one, I don't see the NRA lobbying for severe penalties on guns and guns cause alot of problems so they say.

And Tom that's agreat idea maybe a little jail time to.

We have to look at this in a reasonable situation, if a gun is use in a murder we are not going to want to ban all guns. Why because we ALLuse them, not just part of us.ATV's may very well be a big problem in your area, I don't know it's not here. We can't cry wolf ever time somthing happens that dose not go to suit you, we can't cry to put a ban on it.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-01-2003 19:58: Message edited by: MEATHEAD ]</font>

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I think the only practical solution is to put such a severe penalty in place they won't risk getting caught, even if it's a one in a thousand chance---which is about the actual odds. The penalty should be confiscation of the ATV. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have always been a proponent for making the penalty worse than the crime, it used to be this way but the "modern" era, doesn't think that is very PC. The only way a fix will start to occur here is if these things come to pass, all the moaning for or against will never do any good until this is implemented!!!

 

[Elkhunter]

So Buzz, are you now saying that the reason for abusive behavior on ATVs and poaching is lack of money and personel to enforce the laws rather than it being the fault of ATVs that these types of situations exist?

 

[ELKCHSR]

!!!Am I sensing a little inconsistency here!!!

 

[BuzzH]

Elkhunter, nope ATV's are still one of the reasons those guys were so successful. I would like to see their use severely limited or banned all together for hunting.

If I had my way, any person caught with a hunting license and a firearm on an atv during a legal hunting season would be done hunting for life, confiscation of the atv, and a severe fine, as well as jailtime. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I am consistant, atv's have no place in hunting, IMO.