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"Greenwashing at it's best"

In all honesty I've never seen a good ICE vs EV comparison that took EVERYTHING into account. If it exists I'd like to see it.
Per my first comment… pretty sure driving your current vehicle into the ground is the “best” option.

Then probably a cheap hybrid. I bet soup to nuts EVs only beat trucks once you take the batteries into account.

That’s my WAG, but energy wise… yeah lost that argument to an engineer. Gas powder electric plant to EV motor is more efficient. Mostly it’s due to how truly chitty an IC engine is comparatively ~30% to ~85%.
 
Per my first comment… pretty sure driving your current vehicle into the ground is the “best” option.

Then probably a cheap hybrid. I bet soup to nuts EVs only beat trucks once you take the batteries into account.

That’s my WAG, but energy wise… yeah lost that argument to an engineer. Gas powder electric plant to EV motor is more efficient. Mostly it’s due to how truly chitty an IC engine is.
My assumption is that initial carbon footprint is higher on ev. As vehicle life moves forward, we get closer to parity. When parity is reached is a multivariate dependent upon vehicle material specs and where the EV is drawing it's power (renewable vs non-renewable sources). But it would likely be several years in most cases. Quickly changing information though as technology is hauling ass.
 
As to TREX, slippery when wet, and doesn't last forever. We went with ipe; looks beautiful, will outlast us, and from sustainable sources.
 
My assumption is that initial carbon footprint is higher on ev. As vehicle life moves forward, we get closer to parity. When parity is reached is a multivariate dependent upon vehicle material specs and where the EV is drawing it's power (renewable vs non-renewable sources).

And it would likely be several years in most cases. Fast changing information though as technology is hauling ass.
Absolutely, well put.

The other thing I can’t wrap my head around is how to gauge the “rare earth mineral footprint”. There is some footprint beyond carbon.
 
Absolutely, well put.

The other thing I can’t wrap my head around is how to gauge the “rare earth mineral footprint”. There is some footprint beyond carbon.

I also wonder how much of that is unique to EV batteries though? Certainly they use greater quantities, but my 2022 Toyota has electronics and chips for everything. That way with most manufacturers these days.
 
Solar panels make sense if you live off the grid, in a sunny place, and make enough money to be able to benefit from the generous tax credits that are out there. Otherwise it's a boutique, unreliable, expensive, feel good electric source.

Oil and gas will continue to provide the bulk of our energy supply well into the future.
Not to mention they make a house look like shit.
 
EV's are not "green". I have seen the rare earth mineral mines on the Tundra. Acres and acres of acid ponds. What little soil that was on top of the bedrock striped away by monster machinery as far as you can see. I don't have an answer for our transportation needs, but folks are kidding themselves if they think EVs are better for the planet.
 
Haha! That's great, Mulecreek!

"We realize this comes across as paradoxical," RWE spokesperson Guido Steffen said in a statement. "But that is as matters stand."
 
Interesting that some have taken this thread as a place to complain about regulation.
It is not.
View attachment 246489

Also note, just because you don't believe it, or it cuts your feels a little too deep, doesn't mean it's not true.
It takes a village to greenwash. NGOs need to appear to have solutions to drive their funding needs and feed a sense of self-importance even when their demands often make zero real-world sense (and behind closed doors they often even acknowledge this fact), politicians need to claim high moral ground and drive campaign dollars so they will vote for anything their influencers will tell their base is a good thing - feasibility is meaningless to them - future problems just ensure more grandstanding opportunities, companies try to point out some of the stupidity and lack of feasibility of many NGO demands but eventually go with something performative to appease NGOs and politicians, and the average Joe - the real problem in this picture - who want to feel good about change, but don't want to be inconvenienced, pay more or use less -- they are the ones who reward the NGOs and politicians with attention and $$ and buy the companies' products in an ever-growing volume regardless of real-world effects.

It is easy to blame NGOs, politicians and companies, but if we are honest, we have met the enemy and it is us.
 
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Let oil prices rise so that new plastic production is finally more expensive than leveraging all the recyclable products already out on the market? You can't tell me a consumer is truly willing to pay more for a product that is made from more recycled material especially with inflation looming it's ugly head.
Price parity is not the biggest problem with plastic recycling - the reality is that any plausible price -- most plastics, particularly previously formed, colored, UV stabilized, labeled and used plastics, do not recycle into high quality end products.

Also, plastics use does not drive oil price - engergy use is what drives oil prices, plastics are a small portion out of a barrel of oil.
 
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You provide a link on solar to back up you optimism. Here's a link on recent oil fields and who is involved. Find a replacement source for oil and gas that is available, reliable, and economical, and we can switch to that. Till then that's what we got, if you want to travel, heat your home, and grow food for your belly.

NexGen nukes are the only viable replacement for oil - solar, winds, etc are nice niche add-ons, but for now are just an expensive exercise in avoiding this reality. We will spend trillions, while spoiling nature to get the needed raw materials for solar/wind and cover the lands with the apparatus blight, only to finally turn to nuke in 40 yrs. Would be much better to go all in right now, but the greens will not allow so long as their thread of credibility remains.
 
I can do that for you...

I am using 250 watt/hours per mile, on average. That means I use 250 kWh for your 1000 miles. According to Xcel energy that would add up to 256.75 pounds of CO2 on their current supply sources.

Taking a 2019 Honda Civic (same year, efficient car) that gets 42 mpg on the highway it would take 23.81 gallons of fuel to go 1000 miles. Thanks to the EPA I don't have to do much more calculation on it. This equals 466 pounds of carbon in the air.

While the Honda's emissions would remain steady, Xcel energy has committed to decrease their carbon emissions through alternative sources which will only make this comparison better for the EV in the near future. Regarding the battery - look at existing battery recycling programs for lead acid, as supply increases and demand for lithium continues to increase there will be a need.
So much missing from life cycle management. The more you factor in raw material issues, recycling issues, transmission loss issues, etc etc, the less favorable EVs are. The best models I have seen leave them with a slight advantage, but at that point, the slight advantage is too small to make a meaningful climate difference. If EVs are about actually helping the planet they are properly viewed as greenwashing.
 

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