"Greenwashing at it's best"

[AlaskaHunter]

Not so fast. NPR says it's bad and getting worse.....

Greenhouse gases reach a new record as nations fall behind on climate pledges

The three main greenhouse gases hit record high levels in the atmosphere last year, the U.N. weather agency said Wednesday, calling it an ominous sign.

www.npr.org

The COVID pandemic lead to substantial decrease in fossil fuels with crude oil dropping to $0 dollars a barrel.
Yet emissions during the pandemic was a small dip and the trend line continues.

 

[MNElkNut]

I can do that for you...

I am using 250 watt/hours per mile, on average. That means I use 250 kWh for your 1000 miles. According to Xcel energy that would add up to 256.75 pounds of CO2 on their current supply sources.

Taking a 2019 Honda Civic (same year, efficient car) that gets 42 mpg on the highway it would take 23.81 gallons of fuel to go 1000 miles. Thanks to the EPA I don't have to do much more calculation on it. This equals 466 pounds of carbon in the air.

While the Honda's emissions would remain steady, Xcel energy has committed to decrease their carbon emissions through alternative sources which will only make this comparison better for the EV in the near future. Regarding the battery - look at existing battery recycling programs for lead acid, as supply increases and demand for lithium continues to increase there will be a need.

I would like to explore this math a bit because it isn't making sense to me. What you are saying is:

466 pounds of carbon per 1000 miles driven? So that is almost a half a pound per mile for the gas Civic (0.466 pounds per mile).

It is using 1/42 of a gallon of gas to go that mile. A gallon of gas weighs 6.1 pounds. So 1/42 of that is 0.145 pounds of gasoline used. How does gasoline emit 3.2 times its weight in carbon?

What am I missing?

So 0.145 pounds of gasoline emits 0.466 pounds of carbon?

 

[BigHornRam]

I would like to explore this math a bit because it isn't making sense to me. What you are saying is:

466 pounds of carbon per 1000 miles driven? So that is almost a half a pound per mile for the gas Civic (0.466 pounds per mile).

It is using 1/42 of a gallon of gas to go that mile. A gallon of gas weighs 6.1 pounds. So 1/42 of that is 0.145 pounds of gasoline used. How does gasoline emit 3.2 times its weight in carbon?

What am I missing?

So 0.145 pounds of gasoline emits 0.466 pounds of carbon?

Probably the O2 part of CO2

 

[VikingsGuy]

Probably the O2 part of CO2

12 units of mass from C joins with 32 units of mass from O2 to make CO2.

 

[BigHornRam]

12 units of mass from C joins with 32 units of mass from O2 to make CO2.

And oxygen molecules weigh more than carbon molecules.

 

[VikingsGuy]

And oxygen molecules weigh more than carbon molecules.

yup 16 vs 12 hence 16x2=32. Which makes MNElkNut's math work perfect -- CO2 weighs 3 times as much as C alone so his .145 lb of C times 3 = .435 lbs of CO2

 

[BigHornRam]

yup 16 vs 12 hence 16x2=32

Gotcha...that new math

 

[BigHornRam]

NexGen nukes are the only viable replacement for oil - solar, winds, etc are nice niche add-ons, but for now are just an expensive exercise in avoiding this reality. We will spend trillions, while spoiling nature to get the needed raw materials for solar/wind and cover the lands with the apparatus blight, only to finally turn to nuke in 40 yrs. Would be much better to go all in right now, but the greens will not allow so long as their thread of credibility remains.

This guy wants to double down on stupid.

How Battery Metals Can Power Energy Independence in America

As the U.S. transitions to clean energy, investing in battery metals like lithium and cobalt can help secure an energy-independent future.

www.visualcapitalist.com

 

[VikingsGuy]

This guy wants to double down on stupid.

How Battery Metals Can Power Energy Independence in America

As the U.S. transitions to clean energy, investing in battery metals like lithium and cobalt can help secure an energy-independent future.

www.visualcapitalist.com

We do need to have critical mineral self-sufficiency (incl Canada production for all practical purposes) - but not because of green dreams, but because of ugly turns in the china situation.

 

[Irrelevant]

I offered up the idea that maybe EV cars aren't all that green, but mostly because I don't know and was hoping someone out there might provide some more info. What seemed to follow is just a lot of rabble rousing, head nodding, and echo chamber claims about how terrible EV cars are without providing any sources.

The end of a battery’s life matters as much as its beginning

Americans are terrible at recycling. Electric cars are a chance to change that.

www.vox.com

Recycled Lithium-Ion Batteries Can Perform Better Than New Ones

A novel method of recycling such batteries could help meet skyrocketing demand

www.scientificamerican.com

There are times, actually many time, where the HT community seems to forget that technology is constantly evolving and improving.

 

[TOGIE]

here's some greenwashing i saw a while back in a local tv commercial

MLB, Rockies Pledge to Refill Colorado River Water Supply After Year-Long Drought

Rockies go green, hope to restore 30 million gallons of water into the Colorado River after year-long drought.

www.sporttechie.com

30,000,0000 gallons of water amounts to 92 acre feet. lake powells storage capacity is over 25,000,000 acre feet. damn thing evaporates wildly more than that in half a day i'm sure.

92 acre feet through the 15 mile endangered species reach of the colorado river over say, the 45 hottest days of the summer amounts to 1.5 cfs.

at a station in this reach the average flow was 785 cfs from august to sept this year.

thank god the rockies will save the colorado river.

and that's operating under a bad assumption that because coors field didn't use it Denver Water won't divert it.... they will. even worse assumption, if denver water doesn't divert it, my organization damn sure will pick it up.

though, the conservation ethic is good i guess

 

[AlaskaHunter]

I would like to explore this math a bit because it isn't making sense to me. What you are saying is:

466 pounds of carbon per 1000 miles driven? So that is almost a half a pound per mile for the gas Civic (0.466 pounds per mile).

It is using 1/42 of a gallon of gas to go that mile. A gallon of gas weighs 6.1 pounds. So 1/42 of that is 0.145 pounds of gasoline used. How does gasoline emit 3.2 times its weight in carbon?

What am I missing?

So 0.145 pounds of gasoline emits 0.466 pounds of carbon?

C8H18 so the molecular weight would be 8X12 for carbon + 18 for hydrogen = 114
1 CO2 molecule = 12 + 16 + 16 = 44
So if complete combustion produced 8 CO2 molecules the molecular weight would be 8 * 44 = 352

 

[Ben Lamb]

This is the least sig worthy thread ever.

No stars. Would not recommend.

 

[VikingsGuy]

C8H18 so the molecular weight would be 8X12 for carbon + 18 for hydrogen = 114
1 CO2 molecule = 12 + 16 + 16 = 44
So if complete combustion produced 8 CO2 molecules the molecular weight would be 8 * 44 = 352

The full precision of a chemist - I like that. But now the petro guys/gals need to point out gasoline isn't just C8 chains

 

[FI460]

I offered up the idea that maybe EV cars aren't all that green, but mostly because I don't know and was hoping someone out there might provide some more info. What seemed to follow is just a lot of rabble rousing, head nodding, and echo chamber claims about how terrible EV cars are without providing any sources.

The end of a battery’s life matters as much as its beginning

Americans are terrible at recycling. Electric cars are a chance to change that.

www.vox.com

Recycled Lithium-Ion Batteries Can Perform Better Than New Ones

A novel method of recycling such batteries could help meet skyrocketing demand

www.scientificamerican.com

There are times, actually many time, where the HT community seems to forget that technology is constantly evolving and improving.

Speaking of evolving technology:

Oregon State pioneers new method for recycling plastic

The new "single sort" method would allow previously unrecyclable products to be reused.

www.kgw.com

This article was pushed to me this morning.

 

[BenInMT]

I don’t agree with Greenpeace that the quality of the PET is worse in recycled. The quality of food grade is way higher having been refined to a high molecular density. I think we need more regional PET recycling that turns it into structural panels, blocks, boats, windmill propellers, shit like that. There is so little demand for the bottles that you can get paid to haul them away, free raw materials to form into new high quality things.

For every person working to reduce their plastic waste there must be like a million people globally who couldn’t care less, and they are the ones doing all the breeding.

 

[jryoung]

 

[Deleted member 28227]

This is the least sig worthy thread ever.

No stars. Would not recommend.

What the F- do you have against Lake Wobegon?

 

[Ben Lamb]

What the F- do you have against Lake Wobegon?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

View attachment 246802