"Greenwashing at it's best"

[EYJONAS!]

Id like to personally send a shout out to @wllm for introducing me to a green and eco-friendly way of European skull taxidermy.

All lectric and no fuel required. Except the coal that was burned to produce my wall outlets electricity.

Nevermind the Walter White concoction I'll be disposing of.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Id like to personally send a shout out to @wllm for introducing me to a green and eco-friendly way of European skull taxidermy.

All lectric and no fuel required. Except the coal that was burned to produce my wall outlets electricity.

Nevermind the Walter White concoction I'll be disposing of.

View attachment 246539

Bravo sir, nice looking setup.

 

[Green Hunter]

Wow - trying to follow this conversation can really make one's head spin!

The recycling "promise" was strongly advocated by plastic manufacturers with no intention to do anything with the product at the end of it's useful life, they left that problem to the public to figure out. Even claims of using recycled plastic are based often on pre-consumer waste, meaning leftovers from the production line which sounds to me like it should have always been a standard business practice. Plastic production is too cheap for any recycling to make sense to a business who's purpose is to create profit.

I can't agree with you on the EV or solar greenwashing, though I anticipate your arguments and have little retort! It's also funny to read the comments about taking one's aluminum cans in to buy a six pack twice a year. I appreciate the practice but that is sometimes the only thing that the recycling center is actually able to make money off of in order to take and manage the other recycle waste streams. Glass should be easily recycled but it takes up too much room and weighs so much, plus at sorting its a risk for anyone to manually sort out from the other items.

So... what's the solution? Let oil prices rise so that new plastic production is finally more expensive than leveraging all the recyclable products already out on the market? You can't tell me a consumer is truly willing to pay more for a product that is made from more recycled material especially with inflation looming it's ugly head.

 

[EYJONAS!]

 

[Deleted member 28227]

 

[Green Hunter]

LOL - no thankfully not associated with any communist party!

 

[BigHornRam]

Wow - trying to follow this conversation can really make one's head spin!

The recycling "promise" was strongly advocated by plastic manufacturers with no intention to do anything with the product at the end of it's useful life, they left that problem to the public to figure out. Even claims of using recycled plastic are based often on pre-consumer waste, meaning leftovers from the production line which sounds to me like it should have always been a standard business practice. Plastic production is too cheap for any recycling to make sense to a business who's purpose is to create profit.

I can't agree with you on the EV or solar greenwashing, though I anticipate your arguments and have little retort! It's also funny to read the comments about taking one's aluminum cans in to buy a six pack twice a year. I appreciate the practice but that is sometimes the only thing that the recycling center is actually able to make money off of in order to take and manage the other recycle waste streams. Glass should be easily recycled but it takes up too much room and weighs so much, plus at sorting its a risk for anyone to manually sort out from the other items.

So... what's the solution? Let oil prices rise so that new plastic production is finally more expensive than leveraging all the recyclable products already out on the market? You can't tell me a consumer is truly willing to pay more for a product that is made from more recycled material especially with inflation looming it's ugly head.

I'm a wood is good guy, but Trex decking seems to be very popular choice even when you look at the price of it. High oil price is good IMO too, if people truly want to reduce their carbon foot print.

 

[CowboyLeroy]

Solar panels destroy land like almost nothing else. I've seen how they set them up first hand and it's mind boggling that people think they're good for the environment.

 

[Green Hunter]

@CowboyLeroy - seems to me that we have a lot of surface area on buildings that can be used instead of taking up ground space. Need to workout the issues with utilities and who is "generating" the energy.

@BigHornRam - agree, Trex lasts a LONG time, claims to be recyclable and doesn't need all the maintenance. Oil is like a drug, we got hooked on it while it was cheap and plentiful and now we are so wrapped up we can't get off of it.

 

[CowboyLeroy]

@CowboyLeroy - seems to me that we have a lot of surface area on buildings that can be used instead of taking up ground space.

The problem is the "pods" they need large areas to justify planting a transformer. If they can't put an entire pod they won't bother with it. They also like to use rural areas for the tax abatement. If they build their own substation (more land) they get a 75% tax break, and they need as many pods as they can get to justify getting a state power company to build their substation.

I just measured on onx and the place they developed here the pods are about 20 acres each.

 

[Green Hunter]

The problem is the "pods" they need large areas to justify planting a transformer. If they can't put an entire pod they won't bother with it. They also like to use rural areas for the tax abatement. If they build their own substation (more land) they get a 75% tax break, and they need as many pods as they can get to justify getting a state power company to build their substation.

I just measured on onx and the place they developed here the pods are about 20 acres each.

Yeah - you're right. This is hitting near the limit of my knowledge but there are options beyond just that. Keeping the utilization local may prevent the need of a transformer if the invertor matches the destination voltage (or I am way off, LOL).

The tax break issue resides with so many other issues, I am not disagreeing that it's unfortunate to take space up for that. I would much rather see riparian buffers, wind breaks, etc. Plus I think we both would agree that the transmission and conversion loss from production area to consumer requires even more space to be taken up.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I wonder if people understand how lithium batteries are made and disposed of for their prius and tesla vehicles.

Kinda defeats all purpose to me once you see how they got to get the shit out to make at and dispose of it.

Also, how you they think the power is created to charge their piece of shit 3 times a day.

Answer: The wall outlet, that's what makes it.

My wife friend whose a Dr. was giving me the sales pitch on his green machine. The conversation made me wonder....

1. How is this guy a Dr.
2. How do some people survive in this world?
3. You serious Clark?

Curious if there are actual evals done on emissions per 1000 miles of comparable EV (and the emissions from grid power to generate electricity used) vs gas vehicles. Would be odd if a natural gas power plant was less efficient on emissions than a gasoline car.

Not discounting the battery disposal aspect either.

 

[Stocker]

 

[CowboyLeroy]

Yeah - you're right. This is hitting near the limit of my knowledge but there are options beyond just that. Keeping the utilization local may prevent the need of a transformer if the invertor matches the destination voltage (or I am way off, LOL).

The tax break issue resides with so many other issues, I am not disagreeing that it's unfortunate to take space up for that. I would much rather see riparian buffers, wind breaks, etc. Plus I think we both would agree that the transmission and conversion loss from production area to consumer requires even more space to be taken up.

They don't localize it. The solar companies build the facilities and sell it to the state. I live in one of the most poverty stricken counties in ga, with some of the worst infastructure you've ever seen and they put the electricity all the way to Atlanta. (Because votes)

The tax break is a loophole from the CCC passed back in the 30s. As for riparian buffers, they only had to back 30 feet off the wetland areas.

 

[Green Hunter]

Curious if there are actual evals done on emissions per 1000 miles of comparable EV (and the emissions from grid power to generate electricity used) vs gas vehicles. Would be odd if a natural gas power plant was less efficient on emissions than a gasoline car.

Not discounting the battery disposal aspect either.

I can do that for you...

I am using 250 watt/hours per mile, on average. That means I use 250 kWh for your 1000 miles. According to Xcel energy that would add up to 256.75 pounds of CO2 on their current supply sources.

Taking a 2019 Honda Civic (same year, efficient car) that gets 42 mpg on the highway it would take 23.81 gallons of fuel to go 1000 miles. Thanks to the EPA I don't have to do much more calculation on it. This equals 466 pounds of carbon in the air.

While the Honda's emissions would remain steady, Xcel energy has committed to decrease their carbon emissions through alternative sources which will only make this comparison better for the EV in the near future. Regarding the battery - look at existing battery recycling programs for lead acid, as supply increases and demand for lithium continues to increase there will be a need.

 

[Green Hunter]

They don't localize it. The solar companies build the facilities and sell it to the state. I live in one of the most poverty stricken counties in ga, with some of the worst infastructure you've ever seen and they put the electricity all the way to Atlanta. (Because votes)

The tax break is a loophole from the CCC passed back in the 30s. As for riparian buffers, they only had to back 30 feet off the wetland areas.

That's greenwashing! Not cool

 

[BigHornRam]

@CowboyLeroy - seems to me that we have a lot of surface area on buildings that can be used instead of taking up ground space. Need to workout the issues with utilities and who is "generating" the energy.

@BigHornRam - agree, Trex lasts a LONG time, claims to be recyclable and doesn't need all the maintenance. Oil is like a drug, we got hooked on it while it was cheap and plentiful and now we are so wrapped up we can't get off of it.

Solar panels make sense if you live off the grid, in a sunny place, and make enough money to be able to benefit from the generous tax credits that are out there. Otherwise it's a boutique, unreliable, expensive, feel good electric source.

Oil and gas will continue to provide the bulk of our energy supply well into the future.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buyer beware.

Power problem: Couple's solar panels don't produce the savings as promised

The goal was to reduce their power bill by about $115 a month. Once the solar panels went up, the savings were only about $65. Calls to the company didn't help.

www.wfmynews2.com

 

[Green Hunter]

Solar panels make sense if you live off the grid, in a sunny place, and make enough money to be able to benefit from the generous tax credits that are out there. Otherwise it's a boutique, unreliable, expensive, feel good electric source.

Oil and gas will continue to provide the bulk of our energy supply well into the future.

I'm going to have to disagree on that one for you. While I am not advocating for everyone to buy some and put them up, they do work in many more situations than what you are suggesting.

On your second point, I would like to know what energy company is committing to maintaining their oil and gas energy production in the future? Furthermore - does that make sense that it should? At what point does the emitted carbon hit a level that would finally convince one otherwise?

 

[BigHornRam]

I'm going to have to disagree on that one for you. While I am not advocating for everyone to buy some and put them up, they do work in many more situations than what you are suggesting.

On your second point, I would like to know what energy company is committing to maintaining their oil and gas energy production in the future? Furthermore - does that make sense that it should? At what point does the emitted carbon hit a level that would finally convince one otherwise?

You provide a link on solar to back up you optimism. Here's a link on recent oil fields and who is involved. Find a replacement source for oil and gas that is available, reliable, and economical, and we can switch to that. Till then that's what we got, if you want to travel, heat your home, and grow food for your belly.

APA-Total JV makes oil discovery off Suriname coast

APA Corp said on Tuesday its joint venture with France's TotalEnergies SE has made an oil discovery at an exploration well off the coast of Suriname.

www.reuters.com