Grazing fees, the economics of elk and cattle

[Cornbread]

Should we just shut it all down?

Way I see it, if you use any of the above, no bitching allowed. You don’t like it,,, vote with your wallet. Stop using it. Capitalist way by the way. Remember Bud Light??

I think there is an easier way. A debt crisis, where the govt is not allowed to print money, issue debt/bonds to the chinese and any foreign country, and no yard/garage sale of our national parks, oil & gas rights, fishing rights (or any of our national public assets the bum politicians can sell off) to fund their favortism projects. I hate the term special interest. It's too mild of a description for an evil/corrupt activity. The American people as a whole have to get out the mirror. They are the ones that allow and WANT this favoritism. They WANT corrupt politicians...to get their way and control things so they get the favoritism payment over the nation was a whole.

 

[Eric Albus]

I dont know what the answer is. I'm a Libertarian, so I'm more for the marketplace providing the solution. Part of me says, hell, we subsidize the shit out of tobacco, milk, chips, illegal aliens, old people, the healthcare industry, the defense industry, the teachers union, etc. etc. etc. There are bigger fish to fry. I also think this is our history, our heritage for the country. The payments the ranchers make help to contribute to.....money to feed the govt's corruption. I don't have a strong opinion on this. We really have a mess. Once you let the camel's nose under the tent, you are up shit creek. It's a massive problem through the whole country. I'm praying for a debt crisis which forces some very tough decisions.

Not near as much as rural America is. The sadistic part of me would really like to see a good old fashioned depression. Where people could start comprehending where their last meal came from, one where people would be actually willing to go to work just for food. We have become a nation of entitled sissy’s. A nation where a huge percentage of the population does not even begin to understand that we(farm/ranch) community is the direct beneficiary of gov’t subsidies, so the masses(everyone who produces mostly nothing) is the indirect beneficiary of said subsidies, with cheap, safe, regulated staples(food for those who think staples are for paper, or fences).

 

[Eric Albus]

Energy
Green energy
Banking
Real estate
Municipal construction

Don’t forget farming

 

[Eric Albus]

I can afford non subsided beef. I don’t remember the last time I bought beef but if I did by beef… I can afford it.

I think we need to stop supporting ranching subsidies and artificial profits at the expense of wildlife.

If you can afford to hunt you can afford beef.

 

[Eric Albus]

Unless you live off grid in Ak and are sustenance living.

 

[elkduds]

Within agriculture, livestock feed is the largest water user, at 55 percent. The majority of the water in the Colorado River basin — more than one trillion gallons — is used to grow feed for livestock, connecting the region's water crisis to how much dairy and meat we eat. May 22, 2023
Source: NY Times

 

[Forkyfinder]

Not near as much as rural America is. The sadistic part of me would really like to see a good old fashioned depression. Where people could start comprehending where their last meal came from, one where people would be actually willing to go to work just for food. We have become a nation of entitled sissy’s. A nation where a huge percentage of the population does not even begin to understand that we(farm/ranch) community is the direct beneficiary of gov’t subsidies, so the masses(everyone who produces mostly nothing) is the indirect beneficiary of said subsidies, with cheap, safe, regulated staples(food for those who think staples are for paper, or fences).

Who mostly "produces" nothing? The food you grow is spoiled within days if it's not refrigerated, it can't be refrigerated without power, which can't be generated without all kinds of inputs/outputs and people. 15 million people work in infrastructure, many others work in healthcare - you really prepared to say that's not necessary? Your plumbing shuts down and backs up - I think you are... quite literally full of shit if you think plumbers arent essential. Damn near everything people do is an essential service - precisely why almost nothing shut down during the pandemic when things were open "for essential services only."

 

[rjthehunter]

Not near as much as rural America is. The sadistic part of me would really like to see a good old fashioned depression. Where people could start comprehending where their last meal came from, one where people would be actually willing to go to work just for food. We have become a nation of entitled sissy’s. A nation where a huge percentage of the population does not even begin to understand that we(farm/ranch) community is the direct beneficiary of gov’t subsidies, so the masses(everyone who produces mostly nothing) is the indirect beneficiary of said subsidies, with cheap, safe, regulated staples(food for those who think staples are for paper, or fences).

Wait...

Everyone else produces mostly nothing???

Are you clueless?

 

[406dn]

Not near as much as rural America is. The sadistic part of me would really like to see a good old fashioned depression. Where people could start comprehending where their last meal came from, one where people would be actually willing to go to work just for food. We have become a nation of entitled sissy’s. A nation where a huge percentage of the population does not even begin to understand that we(farm/ranch) community is the direct beneficiary of gov’t subsidies, so the masses(everyone who produces mostly nothing) is the indirect beneficiary of said subsidies, with cheap, safe, regulated staples(food for those who think staples are for paper, or fences).

Boy if this was my post, I would delete it as fast as possible. Saying that society outside of agriculture produces little of value, is profoundly ignorant. We all fill a niche that makes society run. I worked in an oil refinery for many years. Without a steady supply of diesel, agriculture will revert to using beasts of burden. Without the work of tractor builders...same result.

Society benefits greatly when we produce produce medical doctors, nurses, yada, yada.

Even the person flipping the burger at a fast food place is filling a niche that helps society function.

Face it, the overwhelming percentage of agricultural producers got their start when the great grandparents got land for free from Uncle Sam. There are subsidies galore, but agriculture holds it own when it comes the sucking on the government teat.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Boy if this was my post, I would delete it as fast as possible. Saying that society outside of agriculture produces little of value, is profoundly ignorant. We all fill a niche that makes society run. I worked in an oil refinery for many years. Without a steady supply of diesel, agriculture will revert to using beasts of burden. Without the work of tractor builders...same result.

Society benefits greatly when we produce produce medical doctors, nurses, yada, yada.

Even the person flipping the burger at a fast food place is filling a niche that helps society function.

Face it, the overwhelming percentage of agricultural producers got their start when the great grandparents got land for free from Uncle Sam. There are subsidies galore, but agriculture holds it own when it come the sucking on the government teat.

When self importance and ignorance collide.

Speaking of takers and not producers - how about a politican?

 

[Elky Welky]

the overwhelming percentage of agricultural producers got their start when the great grandparents got land for free from Uncle Sam.

And Uncle Sam stole it from the people who were there first, if we really want to get into the weeds.

I'll admit though, I certainly don't add anything to society. Since when do the indigent deserve to have their constitutional rights protected?!

In all seriousness, @Eric Albus there are many people, particularly in this state, that do not have the perk of already being born into a functioning ranch/farm--or dare I say: "entitled" to a working ranch/farm--and they are not only working multiple jobs that benefit society to afford food, but to feed their children and keep their families warm. There is nothing entitled about them, and they are certainly not sissies. They already live in a "good old fashioned depression."

What a horrific thing to wish for, even if it is just the "sadistic" side of you.

 

[jmcd]

Geezuz…. What a triggered fest. I think all Eric Albus was saying was that most of society produces nothing as far as FOOD.
It does seem like we’ve become a nation that likes to bitch about where our food comes from…..at the same time with a full mouth.

 

[rjthehunter]

Geezuz…. What a triggered fest. I think all Eric Albus was saying was that most of society produces nothing as far as FOOD.
It does seem like we’ve become a nation that likes to bitch about where our food comes from…..at the same time with a full mouth.

The human race survived just fine before big ranches. It was a pretty ignorant post.

Especially for a politician.

 

[jmcd]

The human race survived just fine before big ranches. It was a pretty ignorant post.

Especially for a politician.

It’s funny… your post reminds me of all the jack heads advocating eating “caveman” diets and “primal” living. What’d the average caveman live to be, like 25? Average frontiersman, 35?

 

[Trial153]

If you can afford to hunt you can afford beef.

I can afford Non subsidized beef. Ranching needs to get off the government dole

 

[rjthehunter]

It’s funny… your post reminds me of all the jack heads advocating eating “caveman” diets and “primal” living. What’d the average caveman live to be, like 25? Average frontiersman, 35?

I guess I'd attribute that to modern medicine and a better understanding of what is or isn't good for your body. We have also evolved quite a bit since then.

It's just a stupid comment in my mind, because sure, some people need beef, but his cattle are worthless without diesel and trucks to move them. If there's not a butcher at the meat locker, it's going to waste. If the meat locker wasn't designed by an architect and built by someone in construction, all of his beef would be worthless.

To say his ranch should be subsidized because it's the most important thing in the world is ridiculous. Besides, isn't he subsidizing it himself by outfitting off of the ranch?

 

[Treeshark]

Taking a look at the average person you see walking around these days… I don’t think “lack of beef” is really something we need to be all that concerned about.

 

[jmcd]

Taking a look at the average person you see walking around these days… I don’t think “lack of beef” is really something we need to be all that concerned about.

Well, go start lobbying to do away with our food industry/infrastructre… make sure to call everyone a fatass while you’re at it. Maybe in 50 years your hunting will get better on public land?

 

[rjthehunter]

Well, go start lobbying to do away with our food industry/infrastructre… make sure to call everyone a fatass while you’re at it. Maybe in 50 years your hunting will get better on public land?

Do you like paying Eric subsidies? I don't. My taxes are too high. There's no reason farmers and ranchers should be collecting government money AND earning well above the middle class.

 

[jmcd]

Do you like paying Eric subsidies? I don't. My taxes are too high. There's no reason farmers and ranchers should be collecting government money AND earning well above the middle class.

As far as where my tax$$$ go, its way down the list of worries