Grazing fees, the economics of elk and cattle

[Cornbread]

Sugar beats?
Tobacco?
Military industrial complex?

Milk!!

 

[Cornbread]

Interesting point. Begs the question: should the taxpayer be subsidizing (whether directly or through the deterioration of our public land etc.) less productive land just so that it is cost competitive? An analogy: would you want your dollars to go to a contractor so that they could build the an over-engineered bridge through a badland, or not spend as much money and build a road around the marsh...

Plenty of Montana ranchers would shoot me for saying it but if you need a bunch of gov advantage to be profitable than maybe we all need to reevaluate how much we need Montana beef.

I dont know what the answer is. I'm a Libertarian, so I'm more for the marketplace providing the solution. Part of me says, hell, we subsidize the shit out of tobacco, milk, chips, illegal aliens, old people, the healthcare industry, the defense industry, the teachers union, etc. etc. etc. There are bigger fish to fry. I also think this is our history, our heritage for the country. The payments the ranchers make help to contribute to.....money to feed the govt's corruption. I don't have a strong opinion on this. We really have a mess. Once you let the camel's nose under the tent, you are up shit creek. It's a massive problem through the whole country. I'm praying for a debt crisis which forces some very tough decisions.

 

[Derek44]

And at the end of the day, we all put that pack of steaks and pack of burger in our grocery cart. The product feeds our families for crying out loud.

 

[Forkyfinder]

And at the end of the day, we all put that pack of steaks and pack of burger in our grocery cart. The product feeds our families for crying out loud.

That argument literally never ends.

 

[Derek44]

That argument literally never ends.

Because it’s fact. Not an argument.

 

[jmcd]

^^ Find an industry more subsidized than beef.

Energy
Green energy
Banking
Real estate
Municipal construction

 

[Forkyfinder]

Because it’s fact. Not an argument.

How about the coal, power lines, mines, timber, green energy, oil & gas, and farming in general? Communication lines?

Thats the argument that never ends.

 

[Derek44]

How about the coal, power lines, mines, timber, green energy, oil & gas, and farming in general? Communication lines?

Thats the argument that never ends.

Should we just shut it all down?

Way I see it, if you use any of the above, no bitching allowed. You don’t like it,,, vote with your wallet. Stop using it. Capitalist way by the way. Remember Bud Light??

 

[Oak]

Way I see it, if you use any of the above, no bitching allowed.

Another way to look at it is, if you use it, you're the only one allowed to bitch. I mean, why shouldn't we have a say in where it comes from? Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Derek44]

Another way to look at it is, if you use it, you're the only one allowed to bitch. I mean, why shouldn't we have a say in where it comes from? Just playing devil's advocate.

That’s actually fair. I get it. But I guess what I’m saying is if you use it and have a bitch, apply yourself to the remedy. As you and many others have. I hope that makes sense. I just get tired of hearing the pointless, endless complaints from those that won’t apply themselves

 

[Derek44]

Another great example of pork barrel subsidy that plays right into my backyard and expertise is wildland firefighting. You wanna talk about a joke. Makes grazing and green energy look like child’s play.

Its got to the point that all of us contractors that play the game just refer to it as the redneck stimulus

 

[Trial153]

I can afford non subsided beef. I don’t remember the last time I bought beef but if I did by beef… I can afford it.

I think we need to stop supporting ranching subsidies and artificial profits at the expense of wildlife.

 

[rjthehunter]

I haven't put beef in my grocery cart in years. Only time I'm paying for beef is if I order a nice steak while out to eat. I'd think there's a good handful of people here who could say the same thing...

 

[Forkyfinder]

I can afford non subsided beef. I don’t remember the last time I bought beef but if I did by beef… I can afford it.

I think we need to stop supporting ranching subsidies and artificial profits at the expense of wildlife.

Livestock Use on Public Lands in the Western USA Exacerbates Climate Change: Implications for Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation - Environmental Management

Public lands of the USA can play an important role in addressing the climate crisis. About 85% of public lands in the western USA are grazed by domestic livestock, and they influence climate change in three profound ways: (1) they are significant sources of greenhouse gases through enteric...

link.springer.com

Cattle grazing and clean water are compatible on public lands, new study finds

Cattle grazing and clean water can coexist on national forest lands, according to research by the University of California, Davis. The study, published today in the journal PLOS ONE, is the most comprehensive examination of water quality on National Forest public grazing lands to date.

www.ucdavis.edu

Money Doesn’t Grow on Public Lands: The Cost of Livestock Grazing in the American West | School of Marine and Environmental Affairs

Author’s note: the following reflects my personal views, not necessarily the views of Friends of the Owyhee, a grassroots non-profit organization that aims to conserve the Owyhee bioregion in an inclusive, non-partisan way. For most of my adult life I’ve wanted to work in conservation...

smea.uw.edu

According to these - 6% of cattle utilize public land and they consume 1.7% of all of their feed on public land. Earlier - i pointed out that if all public grazing ended - we wouldnt see much difference in price. You also might have missed that grazing can be highly beneficial - or not researched modern ecological grazing methods like @sclancy27 pointed out.

My conclusion after this thread - there are ranches that heavily subsidize our public land (adding water, improving forage/ecology, stewardship) and there are ranches subidized by our government. The existing arrangement needs improvement, but incentivizing stewardship and responsible grazing is something more within grasp than hoping grazing fees become market rate.

 

[Dakotakid]

I can afford non subsided beef. I don’t remember the last time I bought beef but if I did by beef… I can afford it.

I think we need to stop supporting ranching subsidies and artificial profits at the expense of wildlife.

is Pittman Roberts a wildlife subsidy?

 

[Forkyfinder]

is Pittman Roberts a wildlife subsidy?

Wildlife isnt a commercial enterprise - so no?

 

[Ben Lamb]

is Pittman Roberts a wildlife subsidy?

Resident hunters are heavily subsidized by nonresidents.

 

[Dakotakid]

Wildlife isnt a commercial enterprise - so no?

Really?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Really?

Yeah, they arent owned by anyone other than everyone.

Is the water subsidized?

 

[Trial153]

is Pittman Roberts a wildlife subsidy?

I am not following you. Sorry