Fixing Western Hunting

[npaden]

The reality is that one side actually is entitled to the management of wildlife, in the literal sense of the word "entitled" and the other feels entitled in the derogatory way you describe here because of misconceptions and the bad management practices of the states they are exploiting. By giving an inch, those states have lost miles.

I don't disagree with your ultimate point, and an even bigger point worth making is that we keep getting trapped in this R/NR dispute, which distracts from the bigger picture. Too many people, regardless of residency status, being thrown at a limited resource. That doesn't work and is unsustainable.

But it is also a mistake to rely on false equivalency and disregard valid arguments as "entitlement."

Okay, I'll take back the entitled comment and just leave it as whiny for the resident hunters. I think that fits both sides equally well.

 

[MTGomer]

Imagine the cooperation when you bring California and Polis’s husband’s commission to the table to cooperate with Gianforte’s and Idaho’s commissions.

On second thought…. they all hate elk, just for different reasons. Maybe you’re on to something.

 

[TOGIE]

It's just so hard for western residents to be asked to give up more opportunity when our ungulate opportunity is comparatively abysmal to folks in the midwest and east. It's just a different game out here.

I suspect, on average, people in the midwest and east could give up half their resident opportunity and still very likely pick up multiple resident buck tags and multiple resident doe tags every year. Out west, you ask us to give up half of our resident opportunity and many of us easily fall into the less than 1 buck and less than 1 doe (if not zero does) a year category on average.

 

[npaden]

I've seen this argument quite a few times and it tends to always go about the same.

The next straw man to throw up is that the resident population of the western states has grown and that is what is causing the problem. There will be graphs of resident hunting licenses sold vs nonresident. The nonresident grew more as a % but then you look at the raw data and the resident grew way more.

Maybe you need to change it so that you have to wait even longer after moving to a western state before you can hunt? Maybe you have to be a native born person of that state to be guaranteed a license?

Fix the issue of there being half the mule deer on the mountain today vs. 20 or 30 years ago and there will be plenty of tags to go around.

If you are having a hard time getting an elk tag as a resident or nonresident with the healthy populations across the west right now you aren't trying very hard.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Fix the issue of there being half the mule deer on the mountain today vs. 20 or 30 years ago and there will be plenty of tags to go around.

This really would be a more effective strategy. Personally, I'm going to put more effort into this, not only because I like wildlife and like to hunt out west occasionally, but also because these conversations are making me feel ickier and ickier as a NR...

 

[Mtrimble]

I don’t want to criticize anyone’s response, but maybe if you think the ideas stink, through out some different ideas. Perhaps you think the idea of Federal Public Land licensing as proposed is too drastic. Maybe a certain percentage of Public land (50%) then would be more palatable.

This used to be how things got done. Reasonable discussion, new ideas, compromise. Maybe not so in 2024. Certainly doesn’t seem that way in DC.

 

[Treeshark]

Hunters would be eligible for a total of two licenses per year for different species, i.e, Elk and Mule Deer.

This part has been kind of glossed over- this is a great discussion point.

What role does hyper-consumption by individuals play in this discussion moving forward?

 

[BigHornRam]

I would like to hear @Bill Christy thoughts on the subject.

 

[perma]

I don’t want to criticize anyone’s response, but maybe if you think the ideas stink, through out some different ideas.

@npaden had a good one.

 

[brymoore]

Agencies always work with excess budget. They always provide less than covered by budget, wasting excess. They keep excess available in instances were they are requested to do additional work before additional funding can be requested and attained. That's government funding 101.

Nope. F&G always have more projects than funding. Finding this license scheme means some animal doesn’t get counted, an employee isn’t hired or a piece of equipment isn’t purchased. There aren’t extra funds provided to the departments.

 

[Bambistew]

I just hope that we can ban NR from hunting and fishing in Alaska.

You can even keep your money, we get enough from the feds.

 

[Irrelevant]

Man, some of you guys never save any face in these "discussions".

It's also a bit interesting how many people are requesting that more people move to their state to capitalize on their wildlife, I don't believe a single one of you in that regard.

 

[BuzzH]

I don’t want to criticize anyone’s response, but maybe if you think the ideas stink, through out some different ideas. Perhaps you think the idea of Federal Public Land licensing as proposed is too drastic. Maybe a certain percentage of Public land (50%) then would be more palatable.

This used to be how things got done. Reasonable discussion, new ideas, compromise. Maybe not so in 2024. Certainly doesn’t seem that way in DC.

Can't speak to all Western States, but what you're proposing for Wyoming is ridiculous.

There is not one valid reason to increase NR opportunity here, none.

I guess 6 deer tags, 3 elk tags, lion, bear, wolf, and 3-6 pronghorn isn't enough?

There's just no keeping the entitled NR happy.

 

[DFS]

Man, some of you guys never save any face in these "discussions".

It's also a bit interesting how many people are requesting that more people move to their state to capitalize on their wildlife, I don't believe a single one of you in that regard.

I cringe every time someone suggests moving to a western state

 

[BuzzH]

Man, some of you guys never save any face in these "discussions".

It's also a bit interesting how many people are requesting that more people move to their state to capitalize on their wildlife, I don't believe a single one of you in that regard.

That's exactly what I did. I wanted better hunting and made a sacrifice to make that happen by moving to a state with great hunting. The reason for the entitled NR is because they don't want to sacrifice anything to live where they like to hunt.

I miss out on a lot of stuff by choosing to live here.

It's that simple, and yes, living in a State like Wyoming is a sacrifice for all kinds of reason. A big one being earning potential. Living a long way from friends and family for another. I could go on and on. Anyone that thinks living year around here is some great thing, well come on, what are you waiting for? Hunting here is either important enough to make the sacrifice or they can stay in the safety of the bubble they choose to live in.

I didn't make the sacrifices I did to watch opportunity be taken away from Residents just because a NR thinks they're entitled to more of my State's wildlife. They aren't and I'll do all I can to see it doesn't happen. The only thing a NR is entitled to is singing the blues, which some do quite well.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Man, some of you guys never save any face in these "discussions".

It's also a bit interesting how many people are requesting that more people move to their state to capitalize on their wildlife, I don't believe a single one of you in that regard.

Of course I don't want 100K hunters to move to WY tomorrow, but if they want to bad enough there's not one single thing stopping them.

Some people want to re-write the rules to suit their hobbies, which is also their prerogative, it just isn't gonna happen. I want some things that I can't have too, that's life.

 

[Nick87]

Most leases that I know of are not expensive in our neck of the woods. At least compared to private land "trespass fee" type hunts out west in like say, Wyoming, or getting access to Texas ranches.

I personally have an agreement with my neighbor of $25 reduced rent on the agricultural land I own in exchange for my recreational access and exclusive use of his properties. Its a trade of $875 dollars I'm giving up in exchange for 450 acres of recreational use.
My other neighbor leases his 160 acres for $1000.
My dad, brother and uncle lease prime habitat in central WI for $250 each ($750 total) for 190 acres.

These are all 365 day agreements for full hunting use.

WI doesn't have the insane demand for use of the land for hunting compared to some places out west so the landowners here can't exactly charge whatever they want to lease their land. We don't have 1000s of NR flocking and asking to use it.

Comparing leases in the midwest to trespass fees in the west are apples to oranges.

 

[Nick87]

It's that simple, and yes, living in a State like Wyoming is a sacrifice for all kinds of reason. A big one being earning potential.

Yup. Without a doubt that was not a reason but THE reason. Otherwise it definitely woukd have happened 10 years ago and I'm ok with that. Would have loved to do it and that's why nonresident prices aren't what some are making them out to be. I'd of given up a employer paid pension that I was already vested in, full insurance and about a 50% pay cut, Couldn't sell it to myself.

 

[Farmer20]

Thank you so much for taking the time and giving this post some thought. Even while I'm glad that a suggestion like this could lead to opportunities for me, there's a strong socialist vibe about it.

 

[BuzzH]

Yup. Without a doubt that was not a reason but THE reason. Otherwise UT definitely woukd have happened 10 years ago amd I'm ok with that. Would have loved to do it amd that's why nonresident prices aren't what some are making them out to be. I'd of given up a employer paid pension that I was already vested in, full insurance and about a 50% pay cut, Couldn't sell it to myself.

I put a lot of thought into moving before I did.

One of the considerations was just chasing bigger $$$ and just buy expensive hunts and tags.

Not my style though, so chose less money but more access to wildlife via living in a state with the opportunity I wanted, and proximity for easier travel and less expense to neighboring states I would apply for.

What I didn't do, and would never expect a neighboring state to do, is sacrifice their opportunity to make things easier for me as a NR. Won't happen and if I think their system is so bad, I'll just choose not to apply. Exactly what I did with New Mexico.