Finally some good news

[SAJ-99]

True. What's the alternative a free for all?

Not sure there is one. Split off 5% of the tag allocation into a Disabled draw?

 

[nontyp]

True. What's the alternative a free for all?

That’s called Kansas. Crossbows for everybody…very frustrating.

 

[SaskHunter]

Not sure there is one. Split off 5% of the tag allocation into a Disabled draw?

I know you're being facetious, I think, but please don't give anyone any ideas.

Next we'll have a special draw for old people who have hunted their whole lives in the "good ol' days" beg for a separate allocation. You know, because pawpaw needs to shoot his 30th elk at 92.

 

[Nick87]

That’s called Kansas. Crossbows for everybody…very frustrating.

It's more than Kansas my friend.

 

[WildWill]

Same and if they changed it to stick and string, I'd drop it tomorrow and be at the bow shop picking up a recurve.

I'll be in line right behind you.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

I think we need a spear season too…

 

[mukbowhunt]

Crossbows don’t belong in archery seasons. Love this change.

 

[WildWill]

That’s called Kansas. Crossbows for everybody…very frustrating.

And Alabama, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Indiana, Illinois, Oklahoma never mind this is depressing.

 

[NEWHunter]

As long as you have an opportunity to hunt. Your disability shouldn't be an excuse to hunt every season with special rules.

Some people have to choose one type of weapon to hunt with because of low income. Does it mean we should allow them to hunt during archery with a rifle because of wealth inequality? Obviously, no. I kind of see this being a parallel issue; if you can't hunt with a bow, but can with a crossbow or rifle, and there is an open rifle season, there's your chance to hunt!

Not singling you out here, but your equivalency is a little bit off. I’ll offer a different perspective based on what I’ve actually lived for everybody here.

I’ve got a front row seat to an ugly, progressive, completely debilitating disease with no known cause or cure. That meant this gun season I had to get up over an hour earlier opening morning than most everyone else to help my Dad get ready. It also meant I had to lift my Dad into the truck and take care of everything else. Then when got to our spot, it was too wet for the UTV. If we got stuck in that field, the only way he was getting out was the fire department. He missed his second deer season in over 60 years.

I mention this because it’s not just as simple as picking up a crossbow and going hunting. For a lot of folks it’s a team effort just to get somebody with a disability ready to go hunting, let alone spend hours in the woods. It’s completely exhausting for not just me but my Dad as well. We don’t talk about the fact that he has a better chance at winning the lottery than shooting a good buck, the only type of deer he’d be interested in.

Without the crossbow, he doesn’t have a chance to hunt deer at all this fall. We’re both fighting hard to keep the disease from taking more, unfortunately it’s a losing battle. Some of these disabilities take a hell of a lot more than our ability to hunt, and if some accommodations can help make things a bit better for those folks, then people need to get right. Empathy and perspective are sorely lacking these days . . .

 

[Elktrack]

Not singling you out here, but your equivalency is a little bit off. I’ll offer a different perspective based on what I’ve actually lived for everybody here.

I’ve got a front row seat to an ugly, progressive, completely debilitating disease with no known cause or cure. That meant this gun season I had to get up over an hour earlier opening morning than most everyone else to help my Dad get ready. It also meant I had to lift my Dad into the truck and take care of everything else. Then when got to our spot, it was too wet for the UTV. If we got stuck in that field, the only way he was getting out was the fire department. He missed his second deer season in over 60 years.

I mention this because it’s not just as simple as picking up a crossbow and going hunting. For a lot of folks it’s a team effort just to get somebody with a disability ready to go hunting, let alone spend hours in the woods. It’s completely exhausting for not just me but my Dad as well. We don’t talk about the fact that he has a better chance at winning the lottery than shooting a good buck, the only type of deer he’d be interested in.

Without the crossbow, he doesn’t have a chance to hunt deer at all this fall. We’re both fighting hard to keep the disease from taking more, unfortunately it’s a losing battle. Some of these disabilities take a hell of a lot more than our ability to hunt, and if some accommodations can help make things a bit better for those folks, then people need to get right. Empathy and perspective are sorely lacking these days . . .

Doubt anyone would disagree with you about allowing your dad or folks like him, to have allowances made for them. That was the original intent behind the disabled tag and crossbow thing as I understand it.
Unfortunately most people are not disabled and are abusing the system.

 

[SAJ-99]

Empathy and perspective are sorely lacking these days . . .

I certainly agree with that statement, but I'm not sure it applies here. For every person like your dad there are 10 (or 17 if the numbers are right) that are getting a note from their doctor for tennis elbow or a shoulder strain. There are certainly people who are deserve the exception but many who don't. And overly simplified solutions are the foundation of internet discussion. Most of know that at some point Father Time will catch us and beat us into the dirt. It comes at different times for everyone. We know that going in. 60 years of seasons is an amazing accomplishment. Totally a winner in my eyes.

 

[Gerald Martin]

The logic behind the argument for including crossbows in archery season because some folks are unable to draw a bow and they must be allowed to utilize more effective technology to grant equal opportunity is a very slippery slope.

Why aren’t mobility impaired hunters allowed off highway vehicle travel to give them the same access as hunters who can hike? Why aren’t they allowed to use armed drones to shoot their game if they can’t enjoy the same opportunities as more able bodied individuals?

Where is the right place to draw the line and acknowledge that not everyone has the ability to have the same experience as other people do?

 

[NEWHunter]

I certainly agree with that statement, but I'm not sure it applies here. For every person like your dad there are 10 (or 17 if the numbers are right) that are getting a note from their doctor for tennis elbow or a shoulder strain. There are certainly people who are deserve the exception but many who don't. And overly simplified solutions are the foundation of internet discussion. Most of know that at some point Father Time will catch us and beat us into the dirt. It comes at different times for everyone. We know that going in. 60 years of seasons is an amazing accomplishment. Totally a winner in my eyes.

My comment certainly applied to the post I responded to and several others, but now I’m pointing fingers.

Help me understand where Father Time comes in to the picture.

 

[NEWHunter]

The logic behind the argument for including crossbows in archery season because some folks are unable to draw a bow and they must be allowed to utilize more effective technology to grant equal opportunity is a very slippery slope.

Why aren’t mobility impaired hunters allowed off highway vehicle travel to give them the same access as hunters who can hike? Why aren’t they allowed to use armed drones to shoot their game if they can’t enjoy the same opportunities as more able bodied individuals?

Where is the right place to draw the line and acknowledge that not everyone has the ability to have the same experience as other people do?

Most things in life could be viewed as a slippery slope. At some point common sense, reason, and logic (all of which are different for everyone on this planet) has to apply. A line has to be drawn somewhere. But the line isn’t limiting crossbows for the disabled.

 

[SAJ-99]

Help me understand where Father Time comes in to the picture.

See post #32. The use of cross bows was to help those that can't draw a compound bow back the ability to bow hunt. Disabilities increase with age. If they can't separate the deserving from the undeserving-but-with-a-doctors note, then they should be eliminated. If a hunter can hunt with a crossbow, they can hunt with a rifle. The issue becomes one of policing. I'm not against the disabled hunting. We just need the definition of who is disabled to be monitored and enforced.

To take the thought further, I saw a guy take an elk with a crossbow on a WY hunt a few years ago. Completely legal in WY for every hunter. He wouldn't have been able to do that with a traditional compound because of physical limitations. He offered to let me use the crossbow later in the hunt and there would be one less elk on the mountain had I taken him up on the offer. Crossbows are more efficient at taking animals, which the original statement acknowledged. States are dealing with a limited resource and demand that far exceeds supply. Making exceptions for some people so they can participate, while noble, keeps that demand high. This is especially true looking at the demographics of America. Maybe hard questions need to be asked. Is it better to help Boomers with decades of hunting in their past continue their passion or get the new hunter interested in the sport? In AZ, parents often start buying bonus points as soon as they can for their kids knowing it will probably take years to get a tag.

 

[Straight Arrow]

A line has to be drawn somewhere. But the line isn’t limiting crossbows for the disabled.

To be clear, the line is only present during archery only season. Otherwise the line does not exist.

Apparently Arizona agrees with that seasonal line. “AZ Game and Fish Commission voted unanimously to ban the use of crossbows during archery season starting in 2026."

 

[SaskHunter]

Empathy and perspective are sorely lacking these days . . .

I've taken my FIL hunting who's health has been declining drastically for the past few years due to life hitting him hard and cancer. I am very well aware of some people's limitations. He's also had over 60 solid years of hunting. This year he had to cancel his Saskatchewan trip for this very reason, he just couldn't make it due to health reasons. It is what it is. He had other opportunities to hunt and cherished those.

I've missed hunting seasons too, for various reasons. Sounds like you're doing a good job at taking him to the field as best you can. If there are regular seasons your dad can hunt in your state, there isn't really anything to argue here. Also, hunting is hunting, holding off for a buck when there are other opportunities is a bit stretching it when it comes to justifying having exceptions in regular season. If I'm still hunting does with my kids in my 60th year of hunting, I'll be a happy man and consider myself an extremely lucky and accomplished hunter.

 

[SaskHunter]

Not singling you out here, but your equivalency is a little bit off. I’ll offer a different perspective based on what I’ve actually lived for everybody here.

I’ve got a front row seat to an ugly, progressive, completely debilitating disease with no known cause or cure. That meant this gun season I had to get up over an hour earlier opening morning than most everyone else to help my Dad get ready. It also meant I had to lift my Dad into the truck and take care of everything else. Then when got to our spot, it was too wet for the UTV. If we got stuck in that field, the only way he was getting out was the fire department. He missed his second deer season in over 60 years.

I mention this because it’s not just as simple as picking up a crossbow and going hunting. For a lot of folks it’s a team effort just to get somebody with a disability ready to go hunting, let alone spend hours in the woods. It’s completely exhausting for not just me but my Dad as well. We don’t talk about the fact that he has a better chance at winning the lottery than shooting a good buck, the only type of deer he’d be interested in.

Without the crossbow, he doesn’t have a chance to hunt deer at all this fall. We’re both fighting hard to keep the disease from taking more, unfortunately it’s a losing battle. Some of these disabilities take a hell of a lot more than our ability to hunt, and if some accommodations can help make things a bit better for those folks, then people need to get right. Empathy and perspective are sorely lacking these days . . .

I struggle with a few of your comments. I did a quick search and Wisconsin has a crossbow season running 14 Sep 24 to 5 Jan 25, this year. Sounds like there are lots of opportunities there, in fact, more opportunities than most Provinces/States in general.

Also, I'll try to say this as respectfully as I can, but beggars can't be choosers. What I mean by that is, it sounds like you're setting yourself up for failure/disappointment if shooting a good buck is the only measure of success. I strongly believe time in the woods with your parent/children is the reward here, especially when health isn't on your side, not shooting a big buck.

Again, kudos for doing all the work to try and get him out there, I hope you two get to hunt some more in the future, no matter how hard or time consuming it is. In the end you won't look back at the early hours or physical efforts, but you will remember the time spent with him. As someone who's estranged from his father, not by choice, I hope you cherish and enjoy more of those memories.

 

[NEWHunter]

See post #32. The use of cross bows was to help those that can't draw a compound bow back the ability to bow hunt. Disabilities increase with age. If they can't separate the deserving from the undeserving-but-with-a-doctors note, then they should be eliminated. If a hunter can hunt with a crossbow, they can hunt with a rifle. The issue becomes one of policing. I'm not against the disabled hunting. We just need the definition of who is disabled to be monitored and enforced.

To take the thought further, I saw a guy take an elk with a crossbow on a WY hunt a few years ago. Completely legal in WY for every hunter. He wouldn't have been able to do that with a traditional compound because of physical limitations. He offered to let me use the crossbow later in the hunt and there would be one less elk on the mountain had I taken him up on the offer. Crossbows are more efficient at taking animals, which the original statement acknowledged. States are dealing with a limited resource and demand that far exceeds supply. Making exceptions for some people so they can participate, while noble, keeps that demand high. This is especially true looking at the demographics of America. Maybe hard questions need to be asked. Is it better to help Boomers with decades of hunting in their past continue their passion or get the new hunter interested in the sport? In AZ, parents often start buying bonus points as soon as they can for their kids knowing it will probably take years to get a tag.

And the spiral starts. So what you were getting at regarding Father Time, was what Gerald Martin brought up about slippery slopes? Age wasn’t really a consideration when I made my initial post. The disability has been around for four decades, and while 60 seasons is great, quantity does not equal quality.

 

[SAJ-99]

And the spiral starts. So what you were getting at regarding Father Time, was what Gerald Martin brought up about slippery slopes? Age wasn’t really a consideration when I made my initial post. The disability has been around for four decades, and while 60 seasons is great, quantity does not equal quality.

I think you want empathy for your specific case and the rest of us are talking in generalities. If the system is being abused, fix the system. I doubt anyone has any problem with your specific case. My point was that even the number of legitimate cases increases as hunters age but don't want to call it quits.