Fin explains his Grouse Slooshing - Guest on another podcast

“I never met a man I didn’t like”
Will Rogers

I would expand on that topic and add grouse to the analysis. I have to agree with Randy, I can’t pass up a grouse. The 2 best meals at the end of hunting season are elk tenderloins and grouse.

The only reason I wouldn’t shoot a grouse when I was hunting elk would be if the elk were in the same location, meaning, within 100 yards or so. Other than that, grouse haven’t a prayer.

The reference to chicken is close, but I consider Blue Grouse, “gold nuggets.” You can always find another elk, and everything else takes a back seat. I will admit to shooting a few grouse on the wing, but that is usually after the first shot at another one on the ground.

As for the sport of wing shooting, I leave that to ducks. If I miss a duck, I am usually relieved, but I will lie awake at night analyzing why I missed a grouse, should that ever happen.

I doubt there is a gun I have hunted with that I haven’t killed a grouse with...

71A5C552-F53D-43A4-9B53-226060D95A9D.jpegF919ECF8-D5B6-451B-8B0C-80224E379C7E.jpeg29800459-1972-4CB8-9AFC-49F72DA3205B.jpegDBB8F539-CAA1-44C9-8F3E-038D70BE0BCD.jpeg83B3DE15-0226-4183-9B46-DD79B565E1C5.jpeg
 
Now that post and those great pics explain all I tried to convince Ronnie on that podcast. It is funny how many heated emails I got over that podcast. Folks take they grouse snobbery quite seriously.

But then, I fish for spiny bug-eyed fish with bait and I knock them on the head, so I am fully aware that I'm a bit different.
 
devon deer said:
That is exactly what I am after to resolve a problem down by our river.
What make, and what is the projectile you favour, do you have to get pretty close?
Thanks
Richard
Click to expand...
Just a cheap Crossman I bought at a Walmart; same I had when I was a kid, n steel balls
Need to talk to u one of these days about hunting in Europe; when this travel lock down ends!, I work for delta airlines on the side so me n my wife have free travel. My family has quite a bit of land west of San Antonio w/ plenty hogs, maybe a trade could be in order!
 
My favorite backpacking meal in the fall is brookies and grouse with rice. Ruger Single Six .22 Magnum. Long Rifle shoots good, but with Magnum Cylinder a tack driver for head shots.
 
Big Fin said:
Today I got an email from a guy lecturing me about my bird hunting ethics. I don't think he understands the humor of this back and forth jabbing that is me shooting mountain grouse, or as I call them, forest chickens, at every opportunity and thumbing my nose at anyone who doesn't like it. A brief segment of that email is copied below, protecting the well-intended guy who wants to save me from the ground pounder's Hades.




I love watching a good dog work birds as much as anyone. I've had some good bird dogs that I loved dearly and enjoyed every day afield. But, some folks need to loosen the top knot and take a deep breath.

I was polite in my reply, giving some feedback about this ground pounding being a bit of humor in our content. I was going to ask about the ethics of messing up a fine bird breast by filling it full of pellets while wing shooting, versus arrowing them or picking off the heads with a 20 gauge while they are on stumps, all the while preserving in a pellet-free form every bit of breast, wing, and leg meat. I figured that might tip him over the edge.

Tightly wound people are what drove Mrs. Fin out of flying fishing here in our Valley where some want to proclaim as the center of the fly fishing universe. We'd knock a few spotted river carp (trout) on the head and toss them in a cooler. The comments from the Oncorhynchus worshipers were enough that if not for the presence of our young son, I would have tried to hone my pugilist skills. Rather than have our good fishing times rained out by the tears of over-geared and under-qualified tourists packing an attitude, we bought a motorboat and I got her addicted to walleye fishing, where she proudly proclaims, "If you hook 'em, you cook 'em." We even did a T-shirt to support her cause.

Now, if they are 16-20" Sander vitreus, they go in the live well, then to the fry pan, where we eat them with glee, singing praises to the "Catch and cook" gods while the annually growing masses of tourists flock to our ever-crowding Valley for their 100-fish days, seemingly unaware that they have probably killed 5-10 fish in the process. But, I guess the cormorants have to eat, too.

And while the last meal of summer walleyes disappears from our forks, my mind starts thinking about forest chickens. Where I will shoot them on stumps, from trees, on the ground, with a bow, with a shotgun, and be tone deaf to those well-intended souls unable to enjoy the pleasures of putting chicken in the pot.

To me, this style of grouse gettin' is akin to the simple life of bank fishing with a bobber, a worm, and a mess of fat summer bluegills sizzling in hot grease. I'm a guttin' and I'm a grinnin'. And I ain't apologizin' to nobody.
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That was my e-mail Randy and you took it way to serious. And it was not to lecture you. You posed the question as to why anyone would need a hinting dog to hunt Grouse. I was answering that question. It looks like you made more out of my e-mail than was there. I did not intend for my e-mail to put you over the edge as you call it. But it seemed to enlist a toxic response non the less.

Mr. Newberg,



Just found your series of hunting shows on Amazon recently and did some binge watching. Actually because of the show I am now interested in putting a new scope on my Springfield 30-06. I have enjoyed the show very much. In season 4 episode 3 you made a comment about bird hunting, way to open a can of worms. Never insult a dog guy especial his dog. I find myself compelled to answer a question that you asked on the hunt. You didn’t know why guys needed a dog to hunt birds. As I thought about your question I kept coming back around to something you say often on the show, hunting ethics. The same ethics should apply whether your hunting a big bull elk or small bird like a grouse. Those of us that are avid bird hunters do have ethics. The use of a dog plays a part in those ethics. Dogs don’t just help us find live birds they also help to track wounded birds and retrieve those birds. I live and hunt grouse in Michigan. Many times I have had birds fall on the other side of a swift river. This is a situation where a dog comes in handy in retrieving that game. I won’t waste a downed bird just because it fell over an obstacle like a river. A few of those rules of ethics immediately come to mind after watching the show.
1. No ground swatting.

2. No shooting birds out of trees.

3. Birds should be shot on the wing.

4. If the shot is bad don’t take it.

We want to give the bird every opportunity to give us a challenge and shooting a bird on the ground or out of a tree is not a challenge, that’s not fair chase.


Bird hunting with a dog is an art. Training the dog from a wee pup to do the work and follow commands is an integral part of that art. Challenging yourself is more important than killing the quarry. Watching the dog perform the task it was trained to do is often more enjoyable than the end result. It’s about the journey of the hunt not always about the spoils.



Sure anyone can ground swat a bird! But where was the pursuit of the game?



Thank You,

This has nothing todo with being a snob as you put it. Some might think shooting a deer swimming across a river or pond as okay but many find it unethical that does not make them snobs. Some might shoot a sleeping elk others might find that unethical. Again that does not make them a snob.

As for the question about shooting up the breast when shooting a bird on the wing. First I never use anything heavier than a 20Ga and your supposed to hit them in the head. Like this.

IMG_0057.JPG
 
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🤮🤮
LoveBirdDogs said:
That was my e-mail Randy and you took it way to serious. And it was not to lecture you. You posed the question as to why anyone would need a hinting dog to hunt Grouse. I was answering that question. It looks like you made more out of my e-mail than was there. I did not intend for my e-mail to put you over the edge as you call it. But it seemed to enlist a toxic response non the less.

Mr. Newberg,



Just found your series of hunting shows on Amazon recently and did some binge watching. Actually because of the show I am now interested in putting a new scope on my Springfield 30-06. I have enjoyed the show very much. In season 4 episode 3 you made a comment about bird hunting, way to open a can of worms. Never insult a dog guy especial his dog. I find myself compelled to answer a question that you asked on the hunt. You didn’t know why guys needed a dog to hunt birds. As I thought about your question I kept coming back around to something you say often on the show, hunting ethics. The same ethics should apply whether your hunting a big bull elk or small bird like a grouse. Those of us that are avid bird hunters do have ethics. The use of a dog plays a part in those ethics. Dogs don’t just help us find live birds they also help to track wounded birds and retrieve those birds. I live and hunt grouse in Michigan. Many times I have had birds fall on the other side of a swift river. This is a situation where a dog comes in handy in retrieving that game. I won’t waste a downed bird just because it fell over an obstacle like a river. A few of those rules of ethics immediately come to mind after watching the show.
1. No ground swatting.

2. No shooting birds out of trees.

3. Birds should be shot on the wing.

4. If the shot is bad don’t take it.

We want to give the bird every opportunity to give us a challenge and shooting a bird on the ground or out of a tree is not a challenge, that’s not fair chase.


Bird hunting with a dog is an art. Training the dog from a wee pup to do the work and follow commands is an integral part of that art. Challenging yourself is more important than killing the quarry. Watching the dog perform the task it was trained to do is often more enjoyable than the end result. It’s about the journey of the hunt not always about the spoils.



Sure anyone can ground swat a bird! But where was the pursuit of the game?



Thank You,

This has nothing todo with being a snob as you put it. Some might think shooting a deer swimming across a river or pond as okay but many find it unethical that does not make them snobs. Some might shoot a sleeping elk others might find that unethical. Again that does not make them a snob.

As for the question about shooting up the breast when shooting a bird on the wing. First I never use anything heavier than a 20Ga and your supposed to hit them in the head. Like this.

View attachment 174190
Click to expand...
Don’t fall off your high horse talking to us. Get over the snobbish vibe. I bet you’re a scratch golfer too.
 
LoveBirdDogs said:
That was my e-mail Randy and you took it way to serious. And it was not to lecture you. You posed the question as to why anyone would need a hinting dog to hunt Grouse. I was answering that question. It looks like you made more out of my e-mail than was there. I did not intend for my e-mail to put you over the edge as you call it. But it seemed to enlist a toxic response non the less.

Mr. Newberg,



Just found your series of hunting shows on Amazon recently and did some binge watching. Actually because of the show I am now interested in putting a new scope on my Springfield 30-06. I have enjoyed the show very much. In season 4 episode 3 you made a comment about bird hunting, way to open a can of worms. Never insult a dog guy especial his dog. I find myself compelled to answer a question that you asked on the hunt. You didn’t know why guys needed a dog to hunt birds. As I thought about your question I kept coming back around to something you say often on the show, hunting ethics. The same ethics should apply whether your hunting a big bull elk or small bird like a grouse. Those of us that are avid bird hunters do have ethics. The use of a dog plays a part in those ethics. Dogs don’t just help us find live birds they also help to track wounded birds and retrieve those birds. I live and hunt grouse in Michigan. Many times I have had birds fall on the other side of a swift river. This is a situation where a dog comes in handy in retrieving that game. I won’t waste a downed bird just because it fell over an obstacle like a river. A few of those rules of ethics immediately come to mind after watching the show.
1. No ground swatting.

2. No shooting birds out of trees.

3. Birds should be shot on the wing.

4. If the shot is bad don’t take it.

We want to give the bird every opportunity to give us a challenge and shooting a bird on the ground or out of a tree is not a challenge, that’s not fair chase.


Bird hunting with a dog is an art. Training the dog from a wee pup to do the work and follow commands is an integral part of that art. Challenging yourself is more important than killing the quarry. Watching the dog perform the task it was trained to do is often more enjoyable than the end result. It’s about the journey of the hunt not always about the spoils.



Sure anyone can ground swat a bird! But where was the pursuit of the game?



Thank You,

This has nothing todo with being a snob as you put it. Some might think shooting a deer swimming across a river or pond as okay but many find it unethical that does not make them snobs. Some might shoot a sleeping elk others might find that unethical. Again that does not make them a snob.

As for the question about shooting up the breast when shooting a bird on the wing. First I never use anything heavier than a 20Ga and your supposed to hit them in the head. Like this.

View attachment 174190
Click to expand...

I am not new to staging a photo either. We did the same thing by throwing the bird over the top of the shooter and had a junkyard dog along that we were going to ditch out in the prairie, but used him as a photo prop first. The bird was thrown from behind the shooter by a guy with a good arm to give it the appearance of a real kill shot. Isn't it great what you can do with a cell phone, a dead bird and a worthless dog?




001_zps319699ea.jpg
 
LoveBirdDogs said:
A few of those rules of ethics immediately come to mind after watching the show.
1. No ground swatting.

2. No shooting birds out of trees.

3. Birds should be shot on the wing.

4. If the shot is bad don’t take it.
Click to expand...
It is no more unethical to shoot a bird out of a tree than the air. You don’t let deer run first do you?

I too shoot birds on the wing when I’m hunting over a dog. It’s common sense safety for the dog. That said, I’ll make cleaner kills by ground swatting than I will shooting out of the air.
 
LoveBirdDogs said:
In MI you can shoot Grouse with a shot gun or a bow only...
Click to expand...
I dont mean to nitpick, but just is not true... You can shoot them legally with any legal weapon in michigan. I've killed MI grouse with pellet guns, slingshot, shotguns, .22, and even a 30-06 (headshot)...all while wearing the required blaze orange. Hell my old dog even nabbed a few over the years, were those birds illegal? I've pulled a few feathers with my bow over the years, but that method of take just hasn't worked out!
 
Steelsearchin said:
I dont mean to nitpick, but just is not true... You can shoot them legally with any legal weapon in michigan. I've killed MI grouse with pellet guns, slingshot, shotguns, .22, and even a 30-06 (headshot)...all while wearing the required blaze orange. Hell my old dog even nabbed a few over the years, were those birds illegal? I've pulled a few feathers with my bow over the years, but that method of take just hasn't worked out!
Click to expand...
You might be legal depending on the zone to hunt with that 30.06. But if you get caught shooting at birds in a tree with a high powered rifle you are more than likely going to get written up for careless discharge of a fire arm under MI law.
 
JLS said:
It is no more unethical to shoot a bird out of a tree than the air. You don’t let deer run first do you?

I too shoot birds on the wing when I’m hunting over a dog. It’s common sense safety for the dog. That said, I’ll make cleaner kills by ground swatting than I will shooting out of the air.
Click to expand...
I Won't shoot a deer that is swimming or sleeping.
 
shrapnel said:
I am not new to staging a photo either. We did the same thing by throwing the bird over the top of the shooter and had a junkyard dog along that we were going to ditch out in the prairie, but used him as a photo prop first. The bird was thrown from behind the shooter by a guy with a good arm to give it the appearance of a real kill shot. Isn't it great what you can do with a cell phone, a dead bird and a worthless dog?




View attachment 174219
Click to expand...
Well my photo was not staged. I shoot birds for field trials and hunt test. I have a lot of practice. Sorry you don't have a better trained dog.
 
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