Grizzly Bears - Past, Present & Future

[Deleted member 28227]

Good to see some things never change. If a NR doesn't get their way, they're going to stop supporting public lands, grizzly bear delisting, wolf delisting, etc. etc.

I'm over it, have a good time in Africa, shoot a circus animal for me.

I agree with you if it's a 60 year old dude whose hunted the west a dozen times, but what I think you're missing is a generation of hunters who have never gotten to hunt those areas.

We should absolutely be worried about all the 20-30 year olds that will be the conservation donors for the next 30 years who never get started because they never have the chance to get hooked.

I've chosen to send all my conservations $ to RMBS, that's an org I would never have heard about if it weren't for hunting.

I bet RMEF gets a lot of $ from states east of the miss that don't have elk, not to mention the fact that everyone is this country votes for folks at the federal level that make decisions.

If you relegate hunting the west to locals and 65 year old dentists that will have some major negative effects for conservation.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree with you if it's a 60 year old dude whose hunted the west a dozen times, but what I think you're missing is a generation of hunters who have never gotten to hunt those areas.

We should absolutely be worried about all the 20-30 year olds that will be the conservation donors for the next 30 years who never get started because they never have the chance to get hooked.

I've chosen to send all my conservations $ to RMBS, that's an org I would never have heard about if it weren't for hunting.

I bet RMEF gets a lot of $ from states east of the miss that don't have elk, not to mention the fact that everyone is this country votes for folks at the federal level that make decisions.

If you relegate hunting the west to locals and 65 year old dentists that will have some major negative effects for conservation.

You have a point.

But I think a counter to that is I've watched nr opportunity disappear too. I hunt more than one state.

I've never threatened one time to stop advocating for public land because I'm not getting my way on tag allocations.

I've also never threatened to stop advocating for delisting grizzly bears, or wolves over not getting my way as a NR hunter over license allocations.

Frankly, if anyone of any age is only going to advocate for public lands, public wildlife, or delisting grizzlies if they get their way on license allocation, they can piss off.

I do a lot of things, speak up for others, etc. many times against my personal best interest. In other words, I'm mature enough and old enough to realize that doing what's right doesn't have to be a personal benefit to me. It can be to benefit wildlife, to benefit non consumptive users, even though it will either not benefit me or even make my situation worse.

A perfect example was testifying against the coming home to hunt tags in Montana. I testified against my personal interest, because I've been around long enough know the difference between right and wrong.

The same reason I know it's wrong headed and immature for a NR to throw their sucker in the dirt over important issues related to public lands, wildlife, because they feel entitled to another states wildlife or are unhappy about a license allocation.

It's indefensible and childish behavior, no two ways about it.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

You have a point.

But I think a counter to that is I've watched nr opportunity disappear too.

Our thoughts aren't mutual exclusive, I 100% agree with your statement.

 

[406dn]

To add on to BuzzH's comments. The fear of a lost generation does not ring true to me.

Overwhelmingly, non residents coming west to hunt elk, mule deer, etc are already hooked by their experience hunting deer in their own area.

If we are waiting for people who have never hunted anything, waking up, deciding to go west to elk hunt, for our conservation dollar salvation, it will be waiting for Godot.

In a large way, it is the resident hunters in the various western states that lobby their respective states and their game departments concerning wildlife. There is a tendency for very passionate hunters to migrate to a state that offers hunting that meets that passion. I am in that camp, there are many others.

 

[Ben Lamb]

it will be waiting for Godot.

 

[Irrelevant]

In other words, I'm mature enough and old enough to realize that doing what's right doesn't have to be a personal benefit to me.

I think most of us agree with you Buzz, but there's a lot of us that didn't start off with that realization right out of the gate, it took time, but eventually we came around.

I still feel like, my opportunities to hunt deer and elk in other states has increased my give-a-shit about those creatures and their well being. I'm not saying that without those opportunities I wouldn't advocate for them, but maybe not as hard as I currently do. So allowing some opportunity does have it's advantages. I know I'd much prefer to allow a NR advocate access to WA's wildlife resources than a R who is just looking to to kill something and couldn't spell conservation if he had to.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

What I found so interesting about the podcast and his perspective was simply how the current government priority of politics over objective (which could exist, though rare nowadays) science is what he feels is the number one reason he couldn't support delisting now. The reason being the lack of confidence the states would manage wisely for sustained health of grizzlies (paraphrasing, but worth actual listen).

He didn't go off on all the lawyers, killing off all the elk, and other talking points constantly thrown around the hunting community. I may have missed it, but he seemed perfectly clear in his reason why he would not support delisting now in this current political management and climate.

As he came across as ultra knowledgeable it makes me not want to get distracted by tributary issues and focus on what he perceives as the number one problem, our current politicians and politics over science.

 

[Oak]

A Biologist Fought to Remove Grizzlies From the Endangered Species List — Until Montana Republicans Changed His Mind

Former U.S. wildlife official Chris Serhveen lost faith in delisting when Montana’s GOP revealed its anti-bear “hysteria.”

theintercept.com