Extreme hunting pressure in region 7.

[Walkathon]

Spent the weekend in r7.

My username is accurate - i can find forkys. Too bad theres not even many deer around on public land.... period.

Stevie wonder could see the NR tags are the major contributor. Until something reasonable (nr caps, no sales of b tags to non combo holders, no reselling) is done about that - all gonna fruitless.

If you think @brockel / @DFS are over blowing it - i challenge you to go look for yourself.

I agree that it isn't a good situation, at all. I'm a NR, so I have 0 input on Montana's regulations. Cut tags and regulate it. I don't have nearly the experience in the area as others like @brockel but I seriously stopped applying for deer tags, and stopped hunting upland birds there because in the 10 years I did hunt there, the pressure seemed to increase, a lot. For both birds and deer.

 

[idelkslayer]

Can anyone point to anywhere in the west where restricting tags has led to increased deer populations and hunting opportunity?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Can anyone point to anywhere in the west where restricting tags has led to increased deer populations and hunting opportunity?

Well... restricting tags is definitionally reducing oppprtunity. How does idaho compare as far as NR opportunity? Season duration? Season time?

Viewpoint: Nonresidents secure more than 85,000 hunting licenses

Butte Skyline Sportsman Association writes, Just as hunter frustration with nonresidents had exceeded a breaking point, so had our frustration with the laborious process of securing accurate nonresident hunting license information.

missoulacurrent.com

 

[BrentD]

Well... restricting tags is definitionally reducing oppprtunity. How does idaho compare as far as NR opportunity? Season duration? Season time?

Viewpoint: Nonresidents secure more than 85,000 hunting licenses

Butte Skyline Sportsman Association writes, Just as hunter frustration with nonresidents had exceeded a breaking point, so had our frustration with the laborious process of securing accurate nonresident hunting license information.

missoulacurrent.com

I would sure like to know how many of those RESIDENT hunting licenses were used on Federal property.

 

[mtmiller]

I would sure like to know how many of those RESIDENT hunting licenses were used on Federal property.

Distracting post. This has been discussed ad nauseam on HT. No need for it to dilute this thread.

 

[BrentD]

Distracting post. This has been discussed ad nauseam on HT. No need for it to dilute this thread.

I disagree.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Distracting post. This has been discussed ad nauseam on HT. No need for it to dilute this thread.

Yeah ive got nothing to add there. Sure wonder why other states with more federal land and less NR opportunity - yet dont get this heat.

Anyway. To get this back on track - pic below. Can someone post a better buck pic on public land?

 

[Treeshark]

Distracting post. This has been discussed ad nauseam on HT. No need for it to dilute this thread.

I disagree with you as well. Very important issue that is only going to become more important as we move forward.

It is certainly central to the topic being discussed in this thread.

 

[MTGunner]

Have hunted region 7 for many years as a NR and as of 2003 a resident. The pressure of hunters has been multiplying for years. I hunted the 410 zone this season and could not believe the amount of hunters, resident and nonresident alike. There were so many Cabelas cowboys in their complete blaze orange outfits everywhere. Had three walk into a remote field two days in a row full knowing I had set up a stand for an evening hunt. They didn’t care. No Hunter ethics. So, guess I will write off eastern Montana as of now. It’s sad how MT now is going to turn the state into a draw situation. MTG

 

[WanderWoman]

Have hunted region 7 for many years as a NR and as of 2013 a resident. The pressure of hunters has been multiplying for years. I hunted the 410 zone this season and could not believe the amount of hunters, resident and nonresident alike. There were so many Cabelas cowboys in their complete blaze orange outfits everywhere. Had three walk into a remote field two days in a row full knowing I had set up a stand for an evening hunt. They didn’t care. No Hunter ethics. So, guess I will write off eastern Montana as of now. It’s sad how MT now is going to turn the state into a draw situation. MTG

That’s surprising to me; 410 has had some of the lowest tag numbers (deer, elk, antelope) it’s had in years. But you’re not the first person I’ve heard say that, either.

 

[idelkslayer]

Well... restricting tags is definitionally reducing oppprtunity. How does idaho compare as far as NR opportunity? Season duration? Season time?

Viewpoint: Nonresidents secure more than 85,000 hunting licenses

Butte Skyline Sportsman Association writes, Just as hunter frustration with nonresidents had exceeded a breaking point, so had our frustration with the laborious process of securing accurate nonresident hunting license information.

missoulacurrent.com

Presumably, the idea is that tag numbers and opportunity would increase when the herd recovers. (By the way how do we define "recovery"?) Other than reduction in doe tags, when has this ever actually occurred? Buck harvest is not a major factor in herd numbers. Does, habitat, and winter weather control deer numbers.

I just see contradictions in the messaging. Criticism of NR shooting forkies has nothing to do with population. It is a trophy hunting argument. "Reduce hunting pressure to save the herd" has been expressed throughout this thread in words and sentiment. Western states have been cutting mule deer tags for decades; where is the improvement?

Region 7 does seem to have a big imbalance in R/NR hunting pressure and I think Montana would be justified in setting NR quotas for each region to spread out the NR hunting pressure, but again this isn't so much a deer herd population argument as it is a statement of overall hunting experience. Idaho had several areas where NR were 40% of the total hunter numbers and others where it was 5%. We evened that out which reduced hunting pressure in some areas while increasing it in others so it is a double-edged sword but seems to have been a net positive in my opinion.

I think hunters have poor memory. I have watched something similar play out in various parts of Idaho. When the deer population is high, hunters numbers go up and success rates go up. Quite a few large bucks are killed and most everyone is pretty happy, and as long as people are seeing and killing deer they don't seem to mind the presence of other hunters. Then a bad winter or two knocks down the population, hunter numbers decline, there are fewer big bucks (but no one remembers to attribute that to missing age classes of fawns from winter kill, it has to be the fault of hunting pressure). Here in Idaho, like much of the west, we are seeing low herd numbers as the result of 3 bad winters beginning in 2016-17, then 2019-20, and most recently 2022-23. Hunter numbers are low and yet I have heard more complaints about crowding than I ever did when deer numbers and hunter numbers were high. Then we hear calls for reducing tag numbers, shortening seasons, etc. And I get blank stares from other hunters when I remind them about the 3 big winter kills we've had in the last 8 years.

I'm an outsider looking in at this situation in Montana. There is a lot that I am not up to speed on and there is a lot of the discussion that is very similar to what I see play out in Idaho. I read the proposed changes from the advisory group and I just think they are trying to change too many things all at once and without sufficient supporting data. It seems that a good first step would be to actually start collecting harvest reports and other hunt info to fully quantify the variables. I think Montanans are running the risk of ruining a good thing for themselves by throwing out the current season dates before addressing other issues.

 

[MTLabrador]

I’m sure this will piss lots of people off, but I would love to see Montana go to a general deer tag system like Wyoming has. Draw a region general tag with a limited number of tags per region. If you want to hunt Region 7, draw one of X number of nonresident tags.

A state should take care of the resource first, then resident opportunity, then nonresidents, in that order.

 

[Rie Bread]

I’m sure this will piss lots of people off, but I would love to see Montana go to a general deer tag system like Wyoming has. Draw a region general tag with a limited number of tags per region. If you want to hunt Region 7, draw one of X number of nonresident tags.

A state should take care of the resource first, then resident opportunity, then nonresidents, in that order.

I agree it would work out just like Wyoming.
Cause clearly 6000 NR hunter is maybe a little too much.

 

[noisy]

Funny how they say hunter recruitment is declining, yet we all see a lot more hunters in the field.

Same thing with skiing. Supposedly skier numbers are declining, yet the ski resorts and the popular backcountry areas seem more crowded than ever.

What gives?

 

[Rie Bread]

Imagine how many more preferences points the state could sell to NR if they had NR caps in each region.

 

[DFS]

With the harvest stats I don’t know why nonresident caps is even slightly controversial. Obviously they are needed.

 

[mtmuley]

With the harvest stats I don’t know why nonresident caps is even slightly controversial. Obviously they are needed.

Because guys like BrentD and Treeshark will bitch and moan about the Federal lands angle. Which isn't an issue. mtmuley

 

[Treeshark]

Which isn't an issue.

To some it isn’t, to others it is

 

[brockel]

Have hunted region 7 for many years as a NR and as of 2013 a resident. The pressure of hunters has been multiplying for years. I hunted the 410 zone this season and could not believe the amount of hunters, resident and nonresident alike. There were so many Cabelas cowboys in their complete blaze orange outfits everywhere. Had three walk into a remote field two days in a row full knowing I had set up a stand for an evening hunt. They didn’t care. No Hunter ethics. So, guess I will write off eastern Montana as of now. It’s sad how MT now is going to turn the state into a draw situation. MTG

I’m surprised it is still that crowded with only 105 total mule deer tags and elk tags being cut back. Didn’t think anyone went there to whitetail hunt. Not sure I’ve even seen a whitetail on the public land that I’ve hunted in that area. Unless a lot of people don’t know that it is a draw tag now?

 

[mtmuley]

To some it isn’t, to others it is

The wildlife in a State is controlled by that State. Not the Federal Government. mtmuley