Excluding Hunting/Hunters from Wildlife Management - Episode 1 of 4

[bayoublaster7527]

You can damn sure bet anti-hunters aren't struggling with this issue like we are.

Yep. They don’t struggle with anything in places like Colorado and Washington because they are buoyed by piles of money from national orgs and political backing from the ruling party in Denver/Boulder. They also don’t struggle with the issues of wildlife management and protecting the resource because they really don’t care about the resource or the landscape. They just care about eliminating hunting by any means necessary, including misinformation and slander. For them this is truly a social issue, biology matters not. They have no respect for the values and culture of others, particularly rural residents. We as hunters have to be unified in our campaign and get out of our comfort zone and advocate, talk to people we normally wouldn’t. Great discussion in this thread.

 

[MaybelNellie]

First post ever, but this topic has to be as good as any to start. 30+ years hunting Colo and Wyo and not a social media guy, but here goes. Just finished all four episodes.

All the talk on every forum is all good, but we need a plan and a focus. And, the focus needs to be on the Lion initiatives. I'm sure all this has been said already in part and likely already in motion, but wanted to get this out of my head:

1. CRWM and Dan Gates - Everyone of us should contribute whatever we can. If you are in Colo and going to the ISC next week, go to his talks and others and support him. I think he got Randy's 50 year old white guy memo and has some great content now. And if anything else, his almost 40 years of volunteerism needs our backing.
2. All the others - Make noise to all the other .orgs and be heard. I've sent emails to Hornady, Johnny Morris, the new CPW director, Rep Boebert who will likely be my rep next cycle in SE Denver, and others and try to be "respectfully loud" about how important this issue is to us. One example that came about recently is WSF, Howl, and the Hill Ranch just set up an auctioned hunt in Reno that will fund Dan's work I believe. I bet this elk hunt goes for sheep hunt prices. Support all these guys.
3. CPW meetings - Go to the meetings. All of them. However, we have to find a way with this new commission to communicate our message properly. No idea how we do this, but we need a message that doesn't piss off the middle. If we show up in mass all over the state this year, they have to hear us.
4. Believe that this Lion initiative really has nothing to do with Lions. Believe that this is an issue for all states and all outdoors persons. As all have said, we need to stop squabbling about lighted nocks, scoped mzldrs, fly fishermen against bait anglers etc. NO MORE hate threads by and between other hunters on these threads and Instagram. Here is where we do need the right leaders involved (Randy, Rinella, some campaign with a soccer mom). And, this message should be the first 3 minute blurb on every outdoors podcast, every convention this winter and high-budget youtube video promo.
5. Social media - God love D. Wolfe the man and the athlete, but this is a full-time connected world. In the past, an anti had to dig to find a bad kill shot or a kid admiring his/her first meat doe or a bleeding pet-eating African-looking lion heaved up by a 290 lb former NFL Dlineman. Now its one click on an average 3 hours a day 22 yr old's phone. Again, our leaders need to ask us to change or reduce our social media impact. For example, my wife will help pack meat but won't show up to the kill site until all meat is bagged. And, one of my three kids won't hunt but will eat all the fish and game we harvest. However, both will never look at kill shots on the most well-made artsy Sitka sponsored videos. Don't piss off the middle with social media. Reduce or at least severly limit your social impact.
6. Need one new Campaign - While Dan does the legwork inside CWP and the legislature, can we or do we get a "softer" campaign from BHA or similar .org with a Rinella or even a Colo resident similar to a Rachel Ahtila or a Brenda Weatherby spokesperson? Dan's group is a lobbyist essentially (501c4 and not tax deductible) FYI.
7. Unite on our message - Make this about the hunting tradition itself and not the lion. Say its a hunting yes or no referendum vote disguised as a lion vote. We can't even bring up the word wolf. And, anything resembling wolf management is done and over until Polis terms out in 2027 plus 2 more years on a commission change and that's if you think Colorado somehow turns red then. And, if we lose, it will be no one's fault but our own. Not a defeatist, but that's the facts.

I apologize for my length, and l expect I'll get my own hate mail. However, I'm just so impressed by Randy's message over the years and not only yearn for his honest entertainment every week but also his guidance and work on issues that allow us to continue carrying on one of life's greatest family and friends traditions.

 

[Mtn Dawg]

First post ever, but this topic has to be as good as any to start. 30+ years hunting Colo and Wyo and not a social media guy, but here goes. Just finished all four episodes.

All the talk on every forum is all good, but we need a plan and a focus. And, the focus needs to be on the Lion initiatives. I'm sure all this has been said already in part and likely already in motion, but wanted to get this out of my head:

1. CRWM and Dan Gates - Everyone of us should contribute whatever we can. If you are in Colo and going to the ISC next week, go to his talks and others and support him. I think he got Randy's 50 year old white guy memo and has some great content now. And if anything else, his almost 40 years of volunteerism needs our backing.
2. All the others - Make noise to all the other .orgs and be heard. I've sent emails to Hornady, Johnny Morris, the new CPW director, Rep Boebert who will likely be my rep next cycle in SE Denver, and others and try to be "respectfully loud" about how important this issue is to us. One example that came about recently is WSF, Howl, and the Hill Ranch just set up an auctioned hunt in Reno that will fund Dan's work I believe. I bet this elk hunt goes for sheep hunt prices. Support all these guys.
3. CPW meetings - Go to the meetings. All of them. However, we have to find a way with this new commission to communicate our message properly. No idea how we do this, but we need a message that doesn't piss off the middle. If we show up in mass all over the state this year, they have to hear us.
4. Believe that this Lion initiative really has nothing to do with Lions. Believe that this is an issue for all states and all outdoors persons. As all have said, we need to stop squabbling about lighted nocks, scoped mzldrs, fly fishermen against bait anglers etc. NO MORE hate threads by and between other hunters on these threads and Instagram. Here is where we do need the right leaders involved (Randy, Rinella, some campaign with a soccer mom). And, this message should be the first 3 minute blurb on every outdoors podcast, every convention this winter and high-budget youtube video promo.
5. Social media - God love D. Wolfe the man and the athlete, but this is a full-time connected world. In the past, an anti had to dig to find a bad kill shot or a kid admiring his/her first meat doe or a bleeding pet-eating African-looking lion heaved up by a 290 lb former NFL Dlineman. Now its one click on an average 3 hours a day 22 yr old's phone. Again, our leaders need to ask us to change or reduce our social media impact. For example, my wife will help pack meat but won't show up to the kill site until all meat is bagged. And, one of my three kids won't hunt but will eat all the fish and game we harvest. However, both will never look at kill shots on the most well-made artsy Sitka sponsored videos. Don't piss off the middle with social media. Reduce or at least severly limit your social impact.
6. Need one new Campaign - While Dan does the legwork inside CWP and the legislature, can we or do we get a "softer" campaign from BHA or similar .org with a Rinella or even a Colo resident similar to a Rachel Ahtila or a Brenda Weatherby spokesperson? Dan's group is a lobbyist essentially (501c4 and not tax deductible) FYI.
7. Unite on our message - Make this about the hunting tradition itself and not the lion. Say its a hunting yes or no referendum vote disguised as a lion vote. We can't even bring up the word wolf. And, anything resembling wolf management is done and over until Polis terms out in 2027 plus 2 more years on a commission change and that's if you think Colorado somehow turns red then. And, if we lose, it will be no one's fault but our own. Not a defeatist, but that's the facts.

I apologize for my length, and l expect I'll get my own hate mail. However, I'm just so impressed by Randy's message over the years and not only yearn for his honest entertainment every week but also his guidance and work on issues that allow us to continue carrying on one of life's greatest family and friends traditions.

100%. All of it. Listen to this interview by Dan Gates “What is Trophy Hunting” (not about trophy hunting) :

.

Ought to be essential for every sportsman alive.

 

[FairWeather]

Just listened to episode 2 with Kim Thorburn on a flight. Right before that I listened to the beaver state podcast, and episode about the recent increases in new hunters who are women, as well as people of color.

Listening to these two back to back made a thought cross my mind. That this move to exclude hunting from wildlife management, at this point in time especially, is (intentionally or not) adding yet another layer of systemic barriers these groups face in accessing the outdoors.

Just as there is a growing movement to reclaim their right to provide for oneself and their family, to gain a sense of self sufficiency, to access clean food sources, to more fully experience the outdoors…there’s a concerted and growing effort to strip that right away.

Also makes me wonder what the reactions would be if this point were made some commission meetings.

 

[MaybelNellie]

Colorado's new director (Jeff Davis, who last worked in Washington) has publicly stated or stated in closed meeting and released by others that this Mutualistic approach will either lead CPW's overall mission or at least have some impact on it. At the same time however he stated the No. American Model also guides his approach. However, he said in public hearing that CPW is here to serve ALL residents. I damn sure hope he means hunters will always matter under his leadership if we allow wolves to live in peace.

I have been informed that Davis is a workable guy and not to stir the pot at commission meetings with ranting about nothing in order to make every time a sportsman talks is as productive and intelligent as possible. Still, I'm not sure how he talks and walks both sides or if he was just trying to appeal to both sides as well as his ultimate boss (Polis and his husband...who all of us likely agree is a 110% anti-sportsman).

Was in Reno last weekend and saw the awesome Selective video from Jason Matzinger for about the 10th time. Listen to WSF's comments about CDC's One Health and how hunters should be a part of this. Listen to Shane Mahoney on Sheep Fever podcast #19 on 3/2/23 (about 25min point) on the same. Great Stuff on how hunters need to be a part of the landscape for the benefit of wildlife.

I hear the need to shout from the highest ridge - makes the hair stand up on my forearm typing this. Agree with most that the S-S-S idea is not the way, but if the cat initiatives pass and anything else happens to restrict our RIGHT to hunt in Colo, all bets might be off with some.

And, even if you don't live out west, donate whatever you can to CRWM...saw that a wolf made it to northern Illinois. NO state is immune to this hugely funded anti-hunting effort.

 

[get-n-birdy]

Just finished episode 2 of this series with Kim Thorburn. As someone who feels like a closet birder in the hunting community and a closet hunter in the birding community, many hunters would be shocked how many birders are actually great, well educated, open minded, common sensed people. Have always been a birder, and hunter. Really got into photography 3 or 4 years ago and searching out where waterfowl winter in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota really got into it even more. The first real interactions with birders was always squeamish to admit bird hunting was in my family genetics. Then after having some long conversations, with mainly women birders, that have approached me out in some areas where waterfowl find open water. Have been amazed how many are way more open minded and common sensed than I'd ever have imagined. And most have an absolute hatred of feral cats. As well as people's pets who run the neighborhoods without at minimum a bell and no claws.

There are fringes that are running the ship of fools and even a lot of birders don't like the no kill feral cat policy because of the damage cats have had on bird populations. There is more common ground within some groups than we think. Other's, well there will never be any common ground.

Really enjoyed Kim on the podcast and she's welcome at our deer camp up in the Sax-Zim bog anytime. But the competition for those great gray owls is fierce. Within the photographers and birding guides in the bog there is a lot of strange behavior. The guy that runs The Friends of the Sax-Zim bog hunts. All good right? A popular Ducks Unlimited photographer has questioned a lot of the ethics in photographing the great gray owls in the bog and the guides willingness to bring live mice with and bait the birds so their clients can get the bif shots. There's a lot of bad parking habits and blocking roads etiquette that is very problematic for the few local residents. It's lead to a lot of dislike between the birders and locals. There is a lot of entitlement within some of the birders around the bog. It's really a strange deal. I see the same entitlement with the anti-everythinger's view on life in general. It's basically everyone is entitled to their opinion. They rarely listen. And are just waiting for their turn to talk too indoctrinate and proselytize everyone into their enlightened vision of how you not only should, but are going to live. Then you're going to have to like it and be quiet in the corner as they manipulate the context of reality. We are not cattle being lead to the slaughter. We may act like it. But there are tools available to combat these issues. But they are going to take time, effort, money and a willingness to get off the couch and get involved. We need leaders to step up.

We are not victims.

And we are not helpless.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Synchronicity strikes again. I recently listened to the 4 part podcast and have been finding out more about my own states system of wildlife decision making. Today, I learned of an effort to undermine the role of hunters in wildlife management in Vermont, which my brother has been helping to fight. Here’s a link to the bill:

https://legislature.vermont.gov/Documents/2024/Docs/BILLS/S-0258/S-0258%20As%20Introduced.pdf

If there are any Vermonters on here, TODAY is the day you need to speak up.

Vt legislature sargeant at arms # is (802) 828-2228
Ask them to tell senator Bray that they oppose s258