Excluding Hunting/Hunters from Wildlife Management - Episode 1 of 4

[Big Fin]

For the last year Andrew McKean and I have been working on a podcast series that dives into the political movement that is working to carve hunting/hunters out of wildlife management. It started in Washington and is now in full swing in Colorado.

In this series we discuss what has happened and what the ramifications are, in this episode #1. We explain a lot of the history and bring together a lot of the research we have done on the topic. We've always relied on good people and good governance in would wildlife agencies. That trend is proving to be ripe for abuse when some view wildlife as another "spoil to the victors." We also ask the honest questions about when our community might have taken liberty with the powers of agencies and Commissions.

In episode #2 we have Kim Thorburn, a physician and former Washington Wildlife Commissioner, who happens to be a non-hunter. In her terms as a Commissioner, she supported hunting and hunters. She explains how political process was used/abused, to take over the Washington Wildlife Agency and is now being directed with an anti-hunting bias. Again, you will hear a lot of abuse in the process of appointment and lack of governance.

In episode #3, we have Tony Wasley, former Director of Nevada Department of Wildlife, now leading a program with the Wildlife Management Institute to address the relevancy of hunting and hunters in a rapidly changing society. Nevada is one of the most diverse and urbanized states, forcing Tony and his Commission to address a lot of these concerns. Tony has spent much of his career leading efforts at the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (AFWA) on this topic.

In episode #4, we try to bring together what we've learned in our research and from our guests. We discuss where this is going, how well it is funded, and the importance of hunters getting involved, no matter what state they live in. We show how grassroots in Washington is being mobilized. We give ideas provided by folks who've been in these battles that illustrate how hunters can make a difference. It might sound like 9th grade Civics class, but if ever there was a time for hunters to get involved and stop fighting over the small stuff, now is the time.

This was a fun project. A ton of work. And hopefully beneficial.

Link to Episode #1 - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...ting-part-1-of-4/id1012713381?i=1000633828542

If you find it worthwhile, I hope you will share it.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Just read an article about this and then found your post. Thanks for diving into this.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

I’ve learned so many views that I never considered from this website...
Some of them have drastically changed the way i view hunting entirely. If i attended any of the meetings, bills being purposed, amendments and their consequences, I am afraid I’d have absolutely no idea what to think or how to think of the big picture. Many of you think either like lawyers, or conspiracy theorists which MAY be totally relevant.

“This language suggests this ‘may’ happen”… it’s very well thought out generally, whether for or against, but almost always based on the future what ifs.

Point is, I’d love to be more involved here at home. However many of us modern day hunters need a “mentor” to tell us with certainty why the hypothetical reasons we should oppose or support any legislation are paramount. Some of the legal mumbo jumbo is quite intimidating and much of it sounds good to those that cannot read between the lines

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Thank you Big Fin for taking this on. It is terribly important for the future of hunting. Can’t wait to listen. We definitely need some leaders in the hunting community to help us coalesce around a positive, impactful message. And even more importantly to get that message out across a broad, diverse audience. For those hunters in battleground states like Colorado and Washington, this work is tremendously helpful.

 

[KingOfTagSoup]

@Big Fin this first episode was fantastic. We as lovers of wild places and wild things cannot allow ourselves to be caught sleeping. There are very real forces who want nothing more than to see our way of life disappear. One must ask why, why the push to end hunting? There are many reasons, but one in particular that may be more in the shadows is this. Hunting allows the average person to maintain a very high level of independence. As long we can hunt for our own food, we don't need to fully rely on big industries that are under complete government control, and as such, we maintain our individual independence, to the ire of those who would seek full control. (Removes tin foil hat) Ok I'm done now.

 

[wa_archer]

Really enjoyed this first episode and putting out these ideas of how hunting and conservation with the "new" commission thought process. I couldn't agree more with Randy's view on how the preaching of "their" religion and pushing it on others. I have felt this way about several issues. It appears to be the new way of thinking "everyone should be open to everything... as long as its my way of thinking." I will add that there is a group of conservation groups in Washington that are talking with these commissioners and trying to work together so they have an understanding of what hunters and anglers want to see and what would be acceptable. We are trying to find solutions not just yell at the problem.

can't wait for the remainder of these episodes, especially with Kim Thorburn she was great for our state and a huge loss.

 

[Big Fin]

Here’s Episode 2 of 4 with former Washington Wildlife Commissioner Kim Thorburn.

‎Hunt Talk Radio: An Interview With Former WA Wildlife Commissioner Kim Thorburn on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Hunt Talk Radio, Ep An Interview With Former WA Wildlife Commissioner Kim Thorburn - Nov 13, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

 

[Derek44]

Thank you Randy for all you do for all our pastime/tradition/way of life.

 

[Irrelevant]

Below are some takeaway's from ep 1
-Our house is not in order, thank you for pointing it out. We, or at least those of us here in WA, really should look at voluntarily stopping some of our practices to gain tractor with the rest of the populous. If you don't utilize the animal, either through meat or pelt, or it isn't actively causing harm to you, your property, or native wildlife, then we really shouldn't be killing it. I know there are people on here that would adamantly disagree, but I still stand by it. I know I've done my share, but we don't "need to manage predators" just for the sake of it. That is different than saying there's no legitimate reason to hunt them. I would love a cougar pelt, wolf pelt, etc.
-We really need to keep preaching the food aspect of what we do. Even many liberals recognize how crazy vegan's can be. We need to keep pointing out the craziness with mutualists. People will see it.
-I loved Andrew calling us hunters out for not telling our story, that it is so personal you wouldn't get it. Everyone has that thing in their lives that is a defining attribute a thing they hold above all others, it's different than ours but there's no reason to believe they won't get it or can't get it if we accurately describe it. But I think most people are really saying that as a form of embellishment to drive the point of just how critically important hunting is to our own personal religions and identities.
-I knew I like Andrew, but man, I hope you can get him on more. Not only is he a clear and concise thinker, but was clearly as prepared for the discussion as a person can be.
-Also, I need more evangelical Randy in my life. Preach it!


My thoughts from ep 2:
-Ms. Thorburn was a lot better commissioner than podcaster. Her writing is stellar but this didn't appear to be a good medium for her.
-I wish you would have pressed her harder when she insinuated just how deliberately corrupt the commissioners are in their actions and lack of transparency. And how dead set our governor was on steering WDFW down this path. I wonder if her time on the commission has changed her overall politics? I know the commission has changed mine.
-I personally don't think many western WA people of aware of this transition or really have thought through what it means.
-I didn't see the hope that you and her both mentioned.

 

[Big Fin]

Episode #3 is now live. Tony Wasley is our guest here.

‎Hunt Talk Radio: Urbanization, Change, Demographics, and Hunter Relevancy (Part 3 of 4) on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Hunt Talk Radio, Ep Urbanization, Change, Demographics, and Hunter Relevancy (Part 3 of 4) - Nov 20, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

 

[SAJ-99]

Below are some takeaway's from ep 1
-Our house is not in order, thank you for pointing it out. We, or at least those of us here in WA, really should look at voluntarily stopping some of our practices to gain tractor with the rest of the populous. If you don't utilize the animal, either through meat or pelt, or it isn't actively causing harm to you, your property, or native wildlife, then we really shouldn't be killing it. I know there are people on here that would adamantly disagree, but I still stand by it. I know I've done my share, but we don't "need to manage predators" just for the sake of it. That is different than saying there's no legitimate reason to hunt them. I would love a cougar pelt, wolf pelt, etc.
-We really need to keep preaching the food aspect of what we do. Even many liberals recognize how crazy vegan's can be. We need to keep pointing out the craziness with mutualists. People will see it.
-I loved Andrew calling us hunters out for not telling our story, that it is so personal you wouldn't get it. Everyone has that thing in their lives that is a defining attribute a thing they hold above all others, it's different than ours but there's no reason to believe they won't get it or can't get it if we accurately describe it. But I think most people are really saying that as a form of embellishment to drive the point of just how critically important hunting is to our own personal religions and identities.
-I knew I like Andrew, but man, I hope you can get him on more. Not only is he a clear and concise thinker, but was clearly as prepared for the discussion as a person can be.
-Also, I need more evangelical Randy in my life. Preach it!


My thoughts from ep 2:
-Ms. Thorburn was a lot better commissioner than podcaster. Her writing is stellar but this didn't appear to be a good medium for her.
-I wish you would have pressed her harder when she insinuated just how deliberately corrupt the commissioners are in their actions and lack of transparency. And how dead set our governor was on steering WDFW down this path. I wonder if her time on the commission has changed her overall politics? I know the commission has changed mine.
-I personally don't think many western WA people of aware of this transition or really have thought through what it means.
-I didn't see the hope that you and her both mentioned.

It helped me to listen to episode 2 at 1.5x speed.

I think I am hearing a lot of the problems discussed on HT a lot. Hunters revert to a combative stance of us vs them and exclude those that don’t agree with us. We can’t seem to organize around a centralized message. Maybe lawyer-up is the ultimate result.

 

[Gellar]

I’ve listened to all 3 and got valuable takeaways from all of them. I did not know much about my states commission so I looked into it a little more. We are kind of in a bad way the other way. We are heavy on ag minded people on the commission and they almost always lean in favor of big ag when it comes to setting rules and policies. Our DNR might be set up differently than many states. Our department not only manages wildlife and fishes but they are also our states EPA. We do have a department of ag, but rumors are getting louder that the Dnr and ag will be 1 department in the near future.

Here’s a link to probably the biggest example of our DNR being to far in the opposite direction: https://www.iowapublicradio.org/environment/2021-07-01/the-battle-over-bloody-run-creek

 

[hank4elk]

Just listened to the 1st 2 and as usual, excellent work. I have you on spotify. & YT.
So much to think about,here in NM.
Ripe for the picking.

 

[brocksw]

Listening to #1 right now. Excellent work so far, Randy.

 

[Big Fin]

Episode #4 went live yesterday. Big thanks to Andrew for investing this amount of time.

‎Hunt Talk Radio: The Greatest Threat To Hunting and Hunters (Part 4 of 4) on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Hunt Talk Radio, Ep The Greatest Threat To Hunting and Hunters (Part 4 of 4) - Nov 27, 2023

podcasts.apple.com

 

[corndawg765]

Listened to the Kim Thorburn episode recently. It raises some very concerning issues, especially the science for hire aspect related to the cancelled spring bear hunt here in Washington. Seems like the opposition to hunting and especially predator hunting is willing to stop at nothing, including hiring their own scientist to further their biased agenda. When you have anti hunting groups such as the center for biological diversity praising gubernatorial appointments to wildlife commission, should give us all pause. Here is an article from the spokesman review I am referring to. https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/jan/10/new-commissioners-and-lawsuits-have-some-saying-hu/ . I guess one thing I think would help is to have democratically elected wildlife commission agents voted for and not hand selected by obviously biased politicians. We literally have animal rights activist setting policy in Washington state. That is why in part why we have the current situation we have in here.. i.e. abundant predator population, lack of hunting opportunity, dwindling season dates, amongst many other problems. I really wish we as a the hunting public could come together on this instead of bickering amongst each about what caliber of rifle we shoot or what type of clothing we wear.

 

[corndawg765]

Also thank you so much for bringing these issues to the table Randy, and for trying to offer solutions to these problems. great work!

 

[Irrelevant]

Listened to the Kim Thorburn episode recently. It raises some very concerning issues, especially the science for hire aspect related to the cancelled spring bear hunt here in Washington. Seems like the opposition to hunting and especially predator hunting is willing to stop at nothing, including hiring their own scientist to further their biased agenda. When you have anti hunting groups such as the center for biological diversity praising gubernatorial appointments to wildlife commission, should give us all pause. Here is an article from the spokesman review I am referring to. https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/jan/10/new-commissioners-and-lawsuits-have-some-saying-hu/ . I guess one thing I think would help is to have democratically elected wildlife commission agents voted for and not hand selected by obviously biased politicians. We literally have animal rights activist setting policy in Washington state. That is why in part why we have the current situation we have in here.. i.e. abundant predator population, lack of hunting opportunity, dwindling season dates, amongst many other problems. I really wish we as a the hunting public could come together on this instead of bickering amongst each about what caliber of rifle we shoot or what type of clothing we wear.

I think that would make matters worse. I don't want King County voting for the commission. I'd rather take my chances with a new governor

 

[TOGIE]

started the first of these 4 yesterday.

i think i fall in the minority here, but I view all of this as exponentially more threatening to hunting and our passions/traditions, whatever you call them, than matt rinellas rants about influencers and the likes of newberg and steve destroying western hunting. which so many seem to be latching on to as the new villain now.

there are real issues there that matt rinella is bringing up, no doubt. but when you think about what is going on in colorado and washington I coudn't even start to care about what matt rinella has to say is the biggest problem in hunting.

i'm on record as saying it before on this forum. if you don't think your state is going to have these problems and you're more worried about joe schmo and his bros finding your deer spot because they were motivated by steve rinella to apply out of state, then you need to get your head out of the sand.

runaway wildlife commissions seeking to upend your way of life - coming to a state near you.

in fact, i even think people like newberg and steve rinella are a part of what we need to help fight these problems. showing the world how amazing hunting is, the food that it provides, the adventure and unique joys of nature that just don't exist outside of hunting, need to be shouted from the mountain tops. it's amazing how often I hear about weird, hippy dippy, urban centered and generally left leaning types showing interest in hunting. and how did these types probably start developing this curiosity? i betcha you could source it back to steve rinella or joe rogan in one way or another. they are the types that voted for wolves in colorado. the more people like that that start to hear and see what people like steve rinella or randy have to show them and have it resonate with them because they are powerful well told messages by great story tellers who have massive reach, the more we will be able to turn the tide on wildlife commissions turning into animals rights boards.

i'm becoming very worried about what hunting could look like in colorado in the next 20 years. on my scale of concern, matt rinellas points don't even register in comparison.

 

[brocksw]

started the first of these 4 yesterday.

i think i fall in the minority here, but I view all of this as exponentially more threatening to hunting and our passions/traditions, whatever you call them, than matt rinellas rants about influencers and the likes of newberg and steve destroying western hunting. which so many seem to be latching on to as the new villain now.

there are real issues there that matt rinella is bringing up, no doubt. but when you think about what is going on in colorado and washington I coudn't even start to care about what matt rinella has to say is the biggest problem in hunting.

i'm on record as saying it before on this forum. if you don't think your state is going to have these problems and you're more worried about joe schmo and his bros finding your deer spot because they were motivated by steve rinella to apply out of state, then you need to get your head out of the sand.

runaway wildlife commissions seeking to upend your way of life - coming to a state near you.

in fact, i even think people like newberg and steve rinella are a part of what we need to help fight these problems. showing the world how amazing hunting is, the food that it provides, the adventure and unique joys of nature that just don't exist outside of hunting, need to be shouted from the mountain tops. it's amazing how often I hear about weird, hippy dippy, urban centered and generally left leaning types showing interest in hunting. and how did these types probably start developing this curiosity? i betcha you could source it back to steve rinella or joe rogan in one way or another. they are the types that voted for wolves in colorado. the more people like that that start to hear and see what people like steve rinella or randy have to show them and have it resonate with them because they are powerful well told messages by great story tellers who have massive reach, the more we will be able to turn the tide on wildlife commissions turning into animals rights boards.

i'm becoming very worried about what hunting could look like in colorado in the next 20 years. on my scale of concern, matt rinellas points don't even register in comparison.

I probably give Matt's concerns more weight than you, but this is a solid post nonetheless.