Caribou Gear Tarp

Evaluate the ROI on Education

I got a 2 year degree and I’m glad I did.
I don’t think I’d be any further ahead and maybe further behind, if I had two less years of real world experience and 2 more of mostly general ed courses.

It was cheap. Less than $15k.

I can’t get my PE without the other 2 years, but surveying is better and engineers are dorks anyway 😉
 
There are so many college majors it is hard to tie them up into a neat package. A doctor, lawyer, biophysicist, etc are going to make bank. An engineer, nurse, etc are going to do really well. There are many majors that may ask you if you want to supersize that order (I am still looking for my first job ad looking for someone with medieval studies major!). Choosing a college or a trade school needs to fit the skillset, abilities, and desires of the individual person and I just feel you cannot make a blanket statement about whether a college or a trade school returns a better ROI. In state, out state, public, private, scholarships, grants, housing, it is so highly individualistic that it is hard to even hold a generalized conversation.
 
MNElkNut said:
I just did a google search for top occupations of millionaires. Engineer, accountant, teacher, management, attorney.

Score one for the engineers!!!!
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I wouldn't have put teachers in that list? Of course we all know that Google knows everything. (And being a millionaire is a pretty low bar now according the the HuntTalk poll from a year or so ago).
 
There are certainly jobs out there that require degrees that probably shouldn't. Instead, they should test for skills in interviews to meet the minimum requirements. Most of the notable advancements in computer science were made by people without computer science degrees. I'm sure other fields are similar "if" they are allowed to work in the field.

Motivated and hard working people tend to do fine no matter what degree they have, eventually. There is some bias to hire people like themselves, but a lot of people are disappointed once they realize their new employee is not a copy of themselves.

It seems people always tend to get paid what they can get paid and not what they are worth.
 
brymoore said:
with college degrees over a earning lifetime. If there are trades making over $100k,
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Maybe it's more location specific? Which I've always been curious about real numbers around the country. So please anyone in the trades please chime in from other states. Here in the midwest I'd say most trades are at 100k. Most are quite a bit over that. Average is probably 125ish.
 
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IDK
Wife and I never had to opportunity to go to college. Always dreamed our kids would have that opportunity. In the late 90’s you were an idiot if you didn’t go. My oldest (25) has a masters degree, is married and owns her own house. Makes about 70-80k a year. For a while there I wouldn’t recommend another one of my children to go to college. I didn’t spend 18 years raising them so the education system could turn them in to idiots. Just kidding I’m probably the idiot. But seriously it was a Mormon college at that. Gone full circle now as I’m back open to the idea and probably slightly lean toward college once I realized they come back to reality once they leave the echo chamber. On the other hand my second oldest is a commissioned salesperson for the Montana territory of the company I manage and is on track to make 10% of 1-1.5 million this year with no degree, owns her own home at 23 and has no debt other than a mortgage. So yea. Just be such terrible parents that your kids are responsible and hard working and they can be successful either way.
 
Nick87 said:
Maybe it's more location specific? Which I've always been curious about real numbers around the country. So please anyone in the trades please chine in from other states. Here in the midwest I'd say most trades are at 100k. Most are quite a bit over that. Average is probably 125ish.
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Google says the average for Montana is. I’m skeptical.
IMG_5337.jpeg

Which seems strange to me having an open add for multiple positions @25-40 HR that nobody replies to.

This even makes it more interesting


IMG_5338.jpeg

But hey I’m sure google is right.

I 1099 2 subcontractors for over 200k last year and their CODB is less than 10%.
 
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One more short post, someone was suggesting the other day that the problem is there are far too many majors in colleges/universities which results in many that are basically worthless in the real world.
 
Doublecluck said:
Google says the average for Montana is. I’m skeptical.
View attachment 365923

Which seems strange to me having an open add for multiple positions @25-40 HR that nobody replies to.

This even makes it more interesting


View attachment 365924

But hey I’m sure google is right.

I 1099 2 subcontractors for over 200k last year and their CODB is less than 10%.
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Yah I always get a kick out of the Google or zip recruiter numbers. Idk where they get that info from but it doesn't seem accurate even when the location is specific.
 
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JAG said:
I've only heard about them and my son is enrolled in one of these trades that yield an excellent future regarding pay, Welding. As a HS Junior, he already has his eyes set on the CWI certificate. After five (5) years of work experience, these certified welding inspectors are making about $120K in our area.

The stats I posted only include the first year's average pay regardless of the selected trade. I'm trying to find data that reflects the long-term averages, similar to the second post from brymoore above, but for HS/trade school graduates.

This data would be very helpful for the exercise of evaluating educational net gain.
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If your kid can weld and keeps an open mind on where and what kind of work he wants to do. He can make a very good living. The robots aren't gonna replace in the field welders imo. Those are the ones making the money.
 
Skilled trades is petty vague.
A commercial electrician is going to make substantially more than a drywaller. A first year apprentice makes less than half of what an 10 year journeyman will make. A lineman makes more than a construction laborer. Generic Google searches are pretty irrelevant.

I honestly don’t know of any companies that have more than a few employees that don’t offer benefits.

There’s a lot of dumbasses that work in that trades because the bar to entry is so low and everyone is so short handed. You can do well in any trade by showing up and just giving a shit.
 
Steiny77 said:
This is a big problem. Doesn't matter what you choose to do, you still need some basic education.
Do they still even "flunk" kids in grades 1 thru 12 anymore? Used to be pretty common for a kid or two to get held back because they couldn't meet minimum standards. It was embarrassing for them and their family and kind of forced them to get it together and learn the basics.
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Still happens in Prek and Kindergarten. With staff dedicated to interventions and after-school programs, it is much less common through elementary and middle school.
 
MNElkNut said:
I just did a google search for top occupations of millionaires. Engineer, accountant, teacher, management, attorney.

Score one for the engineers!!!!
Click to expand...
I've seen this several times. As a teacher who works a second job in the summer...I would be very curious to see the questions they asked and how that data was complied...if for nothing else than to get myself on that list!
 
The_Jim said:
You can do well in any trade by showing up and just giving a shit.
Click to expand...

Truth right here, between what I've had to pay for various GCs, HVAC, painters, landscapers, etc over the years professionally and personally that ones that show up and communicate are typically very successful.

Now there's even a potential PE exit for many smaller scale guys.

www.marketplace.org

Why private equity is buying businesses in the skilled trades

Private equity firms are showing particular interest in HVAC, plumbing and electrical, said Te-Ping Chen with the Wall Street Journal.
www.marketplace.org www.marketplace.org

Then there's nuanced trades, like medical gas (oxygen, nitrogen) again another field with tremendous opportunity.

I'm having a hell of a time finding LVNs with venipuncture skills, the schools don't even teach them it's sad. They have schooling ranging from $20k -$40k for jobs that pay $25-30/hr. I'm offering $40/hr full medical, dental, vision coverage, 401k with match, cash bonus program AND pension. Full package is over $100k to start and no one has the skillset.

On the college side I'm in alignment with the chart regarding lifetime earnings, but there's also caveats. Big 4 accounting firms in major metro-areas will be offering $90k to start, salary typically doubles ever 5 years. That's with a basic 4 year degree in accounting, huge payoff if you have the work ethic.

On the flip side for a basic MD you have 12 years of schooling and debt, without going into a specialty, derm, plastics, surgery your earnings aren't good and you're most likely a slave to the hospital/insurance system. All of it worse if you're a woman. It's harder and harder to make good money in medicine.

Bottom line, lots of opportunity paths, lots of pitfalls, hard for a kid to be able to do their due diligence on career paths. Learning to network, find a mentor and peel back a few layers on the surface of career options can really yield that ROI.
 
I think you could make big money doing fairly basic things that people can learn with experience, no college or apprentice program needed; painting houses, bathroom and kitchen renovations, fencing etc

Electricians, plumbers, linemen, HVAC guys all do very well but that comes with experience and qualifications
 
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