Elk Packing Services are not a thing you must have a plan

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Big Sky Guy said:
What about driving up to the rancher and offering $500 to rent the stock? I hear of guys renting llamas and always thought that was OK?
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Yep 100% legal. I’m renting llamas this fall, because I learned my lesson. I renting from someone and picking them up with my vehicle. Some outfitters will rent you horses but you need to know how to deal with horses, and they may not be willing to transport them for you to the trailhead or not at least in a timely manner.
 
wllm1313 said:
Yep 100% legal. I’m renting llamas this fall, because I learned my lesson. I renting from someone and picking them up with my vehicle. Some outfitters will rent you horses but you need to know how to deal with horses, and they may not be willing to transport them for you to the trailhead or not at least in a timely manner.
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This is entirely true. Some horses will spook if you get in the middle of or close to an elk herd. Some are difficult to control. You have to be aware of your skill level and you need about as much physical fitness to ride horses as you do walking. You also need horses that have been trained to tolerate guns being fired around them. You also need to know your knots, how to quickly tie a slip knot because often you will have only a few seconds and if you don't tie the horse to a tree or something before you shoot, you just may be walking a long way back to camp and have to pay for a lost horse or file a claim with your insurance company to do that. Most people have no clue how to tighten the cinches or straps on a saddle or how to tie off or wrap the remaining slack. You also want to know basic horsemanship because if you overexert a horse, you can cause open sores which will make the animal lame and no use for rest of the year. My recommendation is if you don't have the skills on handling and riding horses, mules or llamas, that you attend classes for at least the basic level. DON'T try too do it cold stone with no experience.
 
I can tell you from recent experience that you’d want horses that have heard an elk bugle before. I was under a Texas horse the other day while listening to Remi Warren’s podcast during which he blew out a nasty aggressive bugle, and that horse had a class V come-apart...it got full fledged western in a hurry.
 
RockinU said:
I can tell you from recent experience that you’d want horses that have heard an elk bugle before. I was under a Texas horse the other day while listening to Remi Warren’s podcast during which he blew out a nasty aggressive bugle, and that horse had a class V come-apart...it got full fledged western in a hurry.
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So true I rented a horse from Sierra ranches that if I didn't have it tied, it would of bolted. I also had one refuse to go into black timber after smelling elk. You also want to have enough skill to regain control of a spooked horse without getting dumped. Having a horse that is completely experienced in hunting that requires just beginner to novice horsemanship are the ideal ones to rent if you can find them. Many horses do not like elk and will avoid them.
 
Meh, I go to the mountain to get a break from horses. I'd rather carry an elk out by myself backwards as have to feed a horse while I'm hunting. Llamas, on the other hand, interest me. I think next year if I can find someone reasonably close to where I'm going that rents them, I may give it a go. My wife has been trying to talk me into buying a pair every since she saw Randy use them, but I don't know enough about them to know what kind to buy, or even who sells the right kind. Definitely thinking a try before you buy kind of thing though.
 
Llamas are something else. They do like to spit, but generally are easy to lead around. Some don't like the smell of elk or elk meat though. They are easy to feed because they will eat about anything. Most people I talked to says for a week hunt, you can get away carrying about 20 pounds of grain to supplement the grass and pine needles they like to chew on. I have used mules but not llamas yet.
 
Bambistew said:
Good advice. I would add to that other services as well, and ATV's. Don't go any further than you're willing to or can walk out.

There are transporters up here that will put you on the back burner until they get "time." Some fly for outfitters and have contracts that pay much more consistently than a one-timer, or feel like another is more important. One such transporter this year pushed off a pickup for a couple guys to the point the clients tried to float their raft out to a pickup point. It ended with them losing all their gear, a sheep, nearly their lives, and a free ride by the Air Guard. May have been some stupidity on their part, but at the same time, they shouldn't have needed to make the choice. I The delays weren't due to weather.
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My brother flies in Alaska and about every year it seems he encounters a group who has been or maybe more likely thinks they have been ditched by their transporter. I think his SOP is to make sure they have food and their meat is in good shape and the next time he is in the area he checks on them. They are usually picked up by then, but he has given rides to a few.
 
@Randy11 and @WyoDoug

You have to do a bit of digging... it's actually a huge pain in the butt... but every CO ranger district produces a map and/or list of the guides and their "compartments," i.e. area's where they are allowed to render services. I'm sure the BLM has similar maps.

Example...
1567606885481.png


Here is the list for Summit county CO, as you will see none of them overlap. It's one outfitter per area, no competition, if they choose not to pack you out or give permission for someone else to do it you are shit out of luck. It's illegal for someone else to do it, if you choose to try under the table arrangements and get caught both parties will be fined and your "packer" could face felony charges.

Eagle District


Here is unit 53, as that unit seems to be wildly popular per numerous threads.
 
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@wllm1313 maybe I'm not looking at it right, but if I'm reading the legend right, there appears to be substantial overlap with the "Full Curl and Turner" Outfit. They seem to have access to most everything, while others overlay onto their access? Maybe it's species specific? As in they have the sheep concession for the entire area, and the other outfitters have the other species?
 
RockinU said:
@wllm1313 maybe I'm not looking at it right, but if I'm reading the legend right, there appears to be substantial overlap with the "Full Curl and Turner" Outfit. They seem to have access to most everything, while others overlay onto their access? Maybe it's species specific? As in they have the sheep concession for the entire area, and the other outfitters have the other species?
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That's my read as well, the exact use case for each outfitter is pretty specific. What the above map does not show is the exact permit language for each outfitter. This info is not easy to track down. I would imagine that Full Curl and Turner have certain restrictions in place on what they are allowed to do as well.


The map of the west elks is way more detailed so it's a better example of exactly what I'm talking about, again this is not unique it's just the easiest one to show without calling the district and asking for maps and permits.


Below is the outfitter info for Smith Fork Ranch, as you can see they are limited to an area and limited to a number of service days for activity. Note the 20 service days for meat packing and the fact that they are the only outfitter in this area, this means that if you kill an elk in their zone they are the only one's who can pack for you, and that doing so will use 1 of their service days for meat packing. A service day is 1 "guide" in their for a day under their permit so if they refused you but said another outfitter could come get you that still uses one of their days. Essentially this means that 20 animals, the were killed by drop camp or otherwise unguided hunters could be packed out from that portion of the unit total. That's Archery - 4th rifle season. Assuming they have drop camp hunts booked for every weekend of the season, which they probably do, this means that no one can legally remove an animal from the field from that portion of the unit for money.

If you are hunting smith fork unguided and kill a bull no one can legally come get you period.

1567612637551.png


1567612605450.png
 
wllm1313 said:
@Randy11 and @WyoDoug

You have to do a bit of digging... it's actually a huge pain in the butt... but every CO ranger district produces a map and/or list of the guides and their "compartments," i.e. area's where they are allowed to render services. I'm sure the BLM has similar maps.

Example...
View attachment 113741


Here is the list for Summit county CO, as you will see none of them overlap. It's one outfitter per area, no competition, if they choose not to pack you out or give permission for someone else to do it you are shit out of luck. It's illegal for someone else to do it, if you choose to try under the table arrangements and get caught both parties will be fined and your "packer" could face felony charges.

Eagle District


Here is unit 53, as that unit seems to be wildly popular per numerous threads.
Click to expand...

I believe it. Back in the day when I worked as a wrangler for an outfitter, it was a free for all and you sometimes had other groups walking on top of you. It's not that I did not believe the post, it's a change I was not familiar with and needed to research myself.
 
wllm1313 said:
@Randy11 and @WyoDoug

You have to do a bit of digging... it's actually a huge pain in the butt... but every CO ranger district produces a map and/or list of the guides and their "compartments," i.e. area's where they are allowed to render services. I'm sure the BLM has similar maps.

Example...
View attachment 113741


Here is the list for Summit county CO, as you will see none of them overlap. It's one outfitter per area, no competition, if they choose not to pack you out or give permission for someone else to do it you are shit out of luck. It's illegal for someone else to do it, if you choose to try under the table arrangements and get caught both parties will be fined and your "packer" could face felony charges.

Eagle District


Here is unit 53, as that unit seems to be wildly popular per numerous threads.
Click to expand...

I consider myself a pretty good user of the google machine, and I just gave up looking for that map for my unit after 20 minutes of google and the USFS website. Jesus.
 
ChrisAU said:
I consider myself a pretty good user of the google machine, and I just gave up looking for that map for my unit after 20 minutes of google and the USFS website. Jesus.
Click to expand...

Yeah honestly I would just call your ranger district and ask... I worked for the state of CO for a bit so I have a better than average knowledge of how the state and feds post stuff, and I still have a hell of a time.
 
There are places where this is a thing but I’ve always been super hesitant. Even if I pre arrange with a packer in a place where this is a thing, kill a bull 12 miles from the truck and trying to contact pre arranged packer via inreach am ignored or otherwise stood up and my elk rots. Guess who’s on the hook for wanton waste?
 
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