Elevation and shooting question

[nwihunter]

I’m in the process of choosing ammo and getting my new rifle sighted in. This season will my first time rifle hunting out west and up in elevation. I have mounted a new Leopoldo VX3 with the cds dial on it. (Thanks to schmalts). My question has to do with how much will elevation affect my shooting? When I have the custom dial made they need the ballistics of my ammo and also I believe the elevation. We will be hunting elk at 9,000 to 11,000 ft. It will also be used for whitetail hunting back home at 700 ft.

 

[Deleted member 38069]

With higher elevation, the air is less dense. So your bullet will have less drop. Also, your custom dial should give you a 2000 ft range in elevation.

So, if you zero at higher elevation you then would be slightly low back at 700 ft. I would focus on where you would take the longer shots and adjust in the other state.

Hope this helps.

Disclaimer, I'm no expert.

 

[D4570]

You have the same bullet drop no mater where in the world you shoot.
Gravity is the same.
Your velocity is what will change.
You cover more ground going fast, the bullet will drop the same rate you will just be farther out.
sorry just physics.

 

[Jeremyc_1999]

You have the same bullet drop no mater where in the world you shoot.
Gravity is the same.
Your velocity is what will change.
You cover more ground going fast, the bullet will drop the same rate you will just be farther out.
sorry just physics.

That is incorrect. Air density will affect bullet drop. Thicker air means more drag. Generally speaking inside of 600 yards it doesn't make a difference, but going from sea level to 9k feet will make a difference

 

[Fullquiver]

Drop is the effect of time+gravity.. Both of which are a constant.. However the longer time gravity works on your Bullet because of longer time in flight to the target because of increased drag from more air molecules to shoot through at a lower elevation is fact... This (elevation and therefore air density and subsequent drag) is the variable in this equation..

 

[D4570]

Exactly .
The bullet looses speed at different rates.
Drop is the same, no mater what. Slower means it doesn't travel as far for the SAME drop.

 

[SticksMcKinley]

I just went through this with a new rifle and like you, spend most of my time around 700 ft except when I'm headed out west to hunt. I suggest plugging your numbers into a ballistics calculator like this one linked below. I think you'll find that it takes some considerable yardage for elevation to make a big difference, but I don't know whether that matters to your hunt. I just ordered 2 CDS dials for my new rifle. I didn't want to spend $80 on the second dial, but I'd rather have known good adjustments at both extremes of where I shoot and hunt.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

p.s. Be sure to plug your elevation into the "Altitude" input field on JBM. Don't use the elevation field.

 

[Boarmaster]

I just went through this with a new rifle and like you, spend most of my time around 700 ft except when I'm headed out west to hunt. I suggest plugging your numbers into a ballistics calculator like this one linked below. I think you'll find that it takes some considerable yardage for elevation to make a big difference, but I don't know whether that matters to your hunt. I just ordered 2 CDS dials for my new rifle. I didn't want to spend $80 on the second dial, but I'd rather have known good adjustments at both extremes of where I shoot and hunt.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

p.s. Be sure to plug your elevation into the "Altitude" input field on JBM. Don't use the elevation field.

2 CDS dials. Seems like an easiest answer. I am still curious as to just how much drop we are really talking at 400 yards or less between sea level and 9000 ft. Unless I missed it OP doesn't mention what he is shooting.

 

[midwesthunter]

If you are going to shoot past 500 yards and hunt at extremely different elevations then yardage turrets are a waste of time. Stick with MOA or Mrad and print out a drop chart for the elevation you plan to hunt.

Below is my 300 WM shooting a 215 berger at 2860, 10 mph 90* wind angle. Top row is at sea level and bottom at 9,000 feet. Also threw some temperature variables in the mix. You can see after 500 yards drop/drift start to really separate.

 

[TheJason]

 

[nwihunter]

This quickly got really complicated for me. I’m looking to be comfortable taking a 400yd shot, but knowing that is a max range and 200 and under is what will most likely be the shot I would set up for. I’m shooting a .308 and I know it’s not the same caliber that others are giving ballistics for, but 400 yds and under doesn’t seem to be huge difference. I’m probably just better off having it made for my home elevation of 700ft and leave it at that. I do have a range near me that goes out to 750yds that I might want to try so I would need the dial to work for my home elevation. Any thoughts?

 

[pabearhunter]

I had the same problem 925 feet at home and 10,000 feet out west. Leupold said like a couple others have said 2 dials. Or go in the middle which I do not suggest doing.

 

[Jeremyc_1999]

This quickly got really complicated for me. I’m looking to be comfortable taking a 400yd shot, but knowing that is a max range and 200 and under is what will most likely be the shot I would set up for. I’m shooting a .308 and I know it’s not the same caliber that others are giving ballistics for, but 400 yds and under doesn’t seem to be huge difference. I’m probably just better off having it made for my home elevation of 700ft and leave it at that. I do have a range near me that goes out to 750yds that I might want to try so I would need the dial to work for my home elevation. Any thoughts?

get comfortable using the dial and working a ballistics calculator. It isn't that complicated when you get the hang of it. Also, it really isn't elevation, but air density at that elevation (and weather can affect that). What I would do is shoot alot at your home ranges, order a cds dial for where you will be shooting most, and then when you get to your high elevation for hunting, do some shooting between 0 and 400 yards. Use your cds dial, and see if there is a difference. If you dial for 400 yards on your cds dial, and then shoot 400 yards on your scouting day (In a different area than you will be hunting) and you shoot 4 inches high, just know that at 400 yards at 9700' you are going to be 4" high. If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, let me know and I can send you a few articles and tools, but it can get deep. Long range shooting is a great sport and is literally rocket science. What helped me get the best understanding was to make dope charts like @midwesthunter has in his post a few posts up and learn where it really affects your bullet (aka rocket). if you make dope charts for your rifle for 0* to 100* (in 10* increments) and from sea level to 10000' (in 1000' increments), you will begin to notice when your bullet is affected. Although, going down that rabbit hole will probably lead you to standard mil or moa turrets instead of the cds dial.

 

[TheJason]

Why not just make a drop chart and use the MOA dial?

 

[midwesthunter]

get comfortable using the dial and working a ballistics calculator. It isn't that complicated when you get the hang of it. Also, it really isn't elevation, but air density at that elevation (and weather can affect that). What I would do is shoot alot at your home ranges, order a cds dial for where you will be shooting most, and then when you get to your high elevation for hunting, do some shooting between 0 and 400 yards. Use your cds dial, and see if there is a difference. If you dial for 400 yards on your cds dial, and then shoot 400 yards on your scouting day (In a different area than you will be hunting) and you shoot 4 inches high, just know that at 400 yards at 9700' you are going to be 4" high. If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, let me know and I can send you a few articles and tools, but it can get deep. Long range shooting is a great sport and is literally rocket science. What helped me get the best understanding was to make dope charts like @midwesthunter has in his post a few posts up and learn where it really affects your bullet (aka rocket). if you make dope charts for your rifle for 0* to 100* (in 10* increments) and from sea level to 10000' (in 1000' increments), you will begin to notice when your bullet is affected. Although, going down that rabbit hole will probably lead you to standard mil or moa turrets instead of the cds dial.

Jeremyc is spot on, and we haven't even brought up coriolis effect at extended ranges.

 

[Brian in Montana]

How far do you plan on shooting? Considerations like this aren't really huge concerns unless you're trying shoot something a mile away.

I'd recommend you just get a good zero once you get to the state you're hunting and not worry about it beyond that. There are plenty other things to worry about on a mountain hunt.

 

[Jape]

Why not just make a drop chart and use the MOA dial?

That’s what I would do. A CDS dial is convenient when you are going to be hunting a pretty specific elevation with specific variables, but out West things change pretty dramatically, especially at higher elevations. Hornady has a pretty good ballistics app as does StrelokPro. Just plug in your data while hunting, or print out a chart and tape to your stock or lens caps.

 

[midwesthunter]

This quickly got really complicated for me. I’m looking to be comfortable taking a 400yd shot, but knowing that is a max range and 200 and under is what will most likely be the shot I would set up for. I’m shooting a .308 and I know it’s not the same caliber that others are giving ballistics for, but 400 yds and under doesn’t seem to be huge difference. I’m probably just better off having it made for my home elevation of 700ft and leave it at that. I do have a range near me that goes out to 750yds that I might want to try so I would need the dial to work for my home elevation. Any thoughts?

400 yards is easy for bullet drop, below is a 308 reference from 1000, 5000, 9000 feet of elevation, only a couple inches difference. But look at wind drift effect at different elevations. This is why I run a drop chart tapped to the side of my rifle. Because in the heat of the moment, you may forget what the drop/drift difference is.

Another option is just picking your maximum point blank aim for the animal you are hunting and adjust your zero properly.

 

[Brian in Montana]

Goodness, guys. Its a hunting rifle. Don't over think this.

 

[mtmuley]

Goodness, guys. Its a hunting rifle. Don't over think this.

You mean, like, coriolis effect? mtmuley