Eagle eating antelope alive, would you do anything?

[OntarioHunter]

Then why don't you just buy meat from the grocery store?

I do. I hunt too, mostly for the enjoyment of being outdoors. I had no qualms about salvaging the buck I clobbered with my Jimmy two years ago. Or the duck someone clipped with their radio antenna. Didn't have to shoot them to make them edible. Someone wants to give me an elk quarter, I'll take it. Tastes just as good as if I'd shot it.

Lion approaches a herd of buffalo. Is he going to tackle the calf or the bull? More "sport" in bringing down a hard boss bull ... but the lion chooses the calf every time.

 

[The Hedgehog]

would you risk a game violation and shoot the antelope out of mercy?

RIGHT in the FUCGGIN FaCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tjones]

You would deny the lion and the tiger their nature in order to make yourself feel better.

Well now, that all depends on how you were raised.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I hunt too, mostly for the enjoyment of being outdoors.

Is your sport is more important than another critter earning a living?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Found this buck a few years back. A coyote had made a snack of his hind quarter. Sent pictures to the game warden, He said shoot him and he would be by as soon as he could and send a sample in to be tested for CWD.View attachment 240465

And that's the right & ethical call, rather than letting the animal slowly expire. Good on, ya Art.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Is your sport is more important than another critter earning a living?

Huh?

 

[nhenry]

No. Nature is metal. It doesn't care about our feelings and this stuff will happen regardless of if we're here to witness it

 

[Ben Lamb]

Huh?

You kill for sport. There is no need for you to pull out the shotgun or the rifle to feed yourself (we all do this - every single one of us here). The lion, the eagle or the tiger kill to feed themselves and their kin. You would place your own values ahead of the needs of the animal who is hard wired to kill because of the anthropomorphic feelings of sadness that come with seeing an animal get taken down.

You place your feelings and desires ahead of the needs and nature of the wildlife you enjoy. Your ethics of killing for sport are no more noble or well-founded than the eagle's approach to feeding itself.

That's the point - humans are selfish & self-centered even with all of the gifts the creator gave us in terms of intellectual capacity and reason. Art's example is not selfish as that critter would have died an extremely painful and slow death after a failed attempt to predate from a coyote. In that instance, mercy is warranted whereas the idea that you should shoot a critter that's actively being predated is somehow merciful (it isn't, and most people would shoot the critter predating rather than one being preyed upon either intentionally or not).

The overlay of human emotions in a situation without any is a recipe for bad outcomes.

 

[S-3 Ranch]

We used to watch eagles knock desert bighorn lambs off cliffs, then fly down and eat them , Mother Nature is pretty tough on the sheep

 

[OntarioHunter]

You kill for sport. There is no need for you to pull out the shotgun or the rifle to feed yourself (we all do this - every single one of us here). The lion, the eagle or the tiger kill to feed themselves and their kin. You would place your own values ahead of the needs of the animal who is hard wired to kill because of the anthropomorphic feelings of sadness that come with seeing an animal get taken down.

You place your feelings and desires ahead of the needs and nature of the wildlife you enjoy. Your ethics of killing for sport are no more noble or well-founded than the eagle's approach to feeding itself.

That's the point - humans are selfish & self-centered even with all of the gifts the creator gave us in terms of intellectual capacity and reason. Art's example is not selfish as that critter would have died an extremely painful and slow death after a failed attempt to predate from a coyote. In that instance, mercy is warranted whereas the idea that you should shoot a critter that's actively being predated is somehow merciful (it isn't, and most people would shoot the critter predating rather than one being preyed upon either intentionally or not).

The overlay of human emotions in a situation without any is a recipe for bad outcomes.

Some predators will kill for the sport of it to satisfy their instincts: weasel in a henhouse, bush pig or bear in a flock of sheep. But only after they've filled their belly. If I shoot an antelope that an eagle is in the process of killing, I'm doing both critters a favor. The injured antelope dies without suffering and the eagle gets a meal without getting hurt. The eagle is interested in satisfying his desperate hunger, not enjoying the thrill of the kill. If it wasn't desperate it wouldn't be tackling something as big and potentially dangerous as an antelope. I'm sure as hell not going to shoot an eagle but I don't have any qualms about serving up dinner for him if it ends another animal's agony. Life is about death but there's no rule that says death has to be a suffering ordeal when it's not necessary. I thank God I live in a country that acknowledges this and legalized assisted suicide. I may need to exercise that option someday rather than be bound to die a lingering wasteful "natural" death.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The idea that animals kill for sport is pretty thoroughly debunked. Surplus killing is what you are describing, and it's what happens when the situation presents itself for multiple kills and the conservation of energy.

I'm a big proponent of assisted suicide. But that's a huge leap to go from a sentient being making a conscience decision to end their own life to playing god and taking a life.

 

[manitou1]

The idea that animals kill for sport is pretty thoroughly debunked. Surplus killing is what you are describing, and it's what happens when the situation presents itself for multiple kills and the conservation of energy.

I'm a big proponent of assisted suicide. But that's a huge leap to go from a sentient being making a conscience decision to end their own life to playing god and taking a life.

Then why do they leave them lay to rot?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Then why do they leave them lay to rot?

They don't.

They will come back and reclaim them, and often times they will get stolen by other scavengers. Elk on the Wyoming feedgrounds are a great example of this surplus killing.

Right time & place for wolves to take out a bunch of elk and save some energy. WGFD came in a scooped up those dead elk and the wolves did it again. Once they let them lay, the surplus killing went down, because they could munch on them as well as have enough for other critters to eat on.

Tons of good work done in YNP on this as well, especially around the interplay between wolves & grizz on kills.

 

[OntarioHunter]

The idea that animals kill for sport is pretty thoroughly debunked. Surplus killing is what you are describing, and it's what happens when the situation presents itself for multiple kills and the conservation of energy.

I'm a big proponent of assisted suicide. But that's a huge leap to go from a sentient being making a conscience decision to end their own life to playing god and taking a life.

Really? How do you think that antelope would vote when it's being eaten alive? I think I know. And what about the eagle? It would undoubtedly prefer to eat something that's not fighting back. Humans regulate every inch of the earth's environment, right down to the deepest depths of the oceans. There is no such thing as a "natural environment" any more. I don't have a problem interfering in a "natural" situation if it doesn't affect the outcome and ends some suffering. Win win situation. The key is of course not affecting the outcome. Can I kill the antelope and ensure the eagle will not get killed or injured in the process or abandon the kill? My observed behavior is that an eagle will not abandon a kill. I had to fire a round off a baldy's port bow because it was harrassing my Lab when she was trying to pick up a downed duck. The eagle just flew to a tree and waited for us to leave. A hawk had already found the duck and messed it up so Opal wouldn't pick it up. Interesting that the hawk could keep the eagle off the carcass. Hawk left obligingly when Opal went for the duck but then the eagle dropped out of a tree and went for my dog, no doubt trying to scare her off. Eagle got to eat the duck eventually even after I put a warning round in the air.

 

[Ben Lamb]

You're anthropomorphizing again.

 

[OntarioHunter]

You're anthropomorphizing again.

Wake up. It's an anthropomorphic world. Has been for a long time. Whatever path humans choose, it affects the natural world. No animal, human or otherwise, wants to die a miserable suffering death. I don't have a problem granting their wish for a speedy demise. I know it's what they want because I know that's what I'd want ... and when you get right down to it we are all just animals who want the same thing when the end of the road comes.

 

[nhenry]

Wake up. It's an anthropomorphic world. Has been for a long time. Whatever path humans choose, it affects the natural world. No animal, human or otherwise, wants to die a miserable suffering death. I don't have a problem granting their wish for a speedy demise. I know it's what they want because I know that's what I'd want ... and when you get right down to it we are all just animals who want the same thing when the end of the road comes.

There are no hard feelings in nature. The only thing an animal feels is that it wants to live.

It is a very human thing to think other animals would want to be put down by us, when that couldn't be further from how nature actually acts.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Wake up. It's an anthropomorphic world. Has been for a long time. Whatever path humans choose, it affects the natural world. No animal, human or otherwise, wants to die a miserable suffering death. I don't have a problem granting their wish for a speedy demise. I know it's what they want because I know that's what I'd want ... and when you get right down to it we are all just animals who want the same thing when the end of the road comes.

“It is the mark of the mind untrained to take its own processes as valid for all men, and its own judgments for absolute truth.”
― Aleister Crowley

 

[OntarioHunter]

There are no hard feelings in nature. The only thing an animal feels is that it wants to live.

It is a very human thing to think other animals would want to be put down by us, when that couldn't be further from how nature actually acts.

Wrong. Dying from a broken heart has been documented among humans and animals (it is a physical condition - cardiomyopathy induced by grief). If a dog and a human both get to the point where they can grieve themselves to death, why do you assume that they cannot both similarly reach a point in their suffering that they both wish to die?

 

[DouglasR]

If a protected predator attacked your dog or cat and you had your 6.5 or mossberg with you would you send it to the shadow realm in an attempt to save your pet?