Dubya taxes hunters

[BigHornRam]

Buzz quote:

"The joke is the crooked bastards we elect to represent us that rob from the program to fund their pet gubbermint pork barrel projects..."

I hear one of the latest piece of pork being slipped into the current spending bill is $250,000 to the National Wild Turkey Federation. Certainly one piece of pork that most of us at this site would find more palatable then many of the others. For every piece of pork we as individuals dislike, there are many that do like it and support it, and vice a versa. That's the problem. Pork is pork, and until we all decided to put our foot down on every single item, this will continue to be business as usual.

So Buzz, you support re-intro of grizzlies into Idaho, even though the majority oppose it. You claim to be moving forward with this agenda in spite of this. Does that make you and your commrades a bunch of "crooked bastards trying to fund their pet pork barrel project?

 

[BuzzH]

Paul,

For starters, you're wrong about the majority opposing grizzly reintro in the selway/bitterroot. During the various public comment periods there was overwhelming support of the reintro.

Heres what one poll said:


"A public opinion poll funded by the Idaho Department of Fish and Game, National Fish and Wildlife Foundation and the University of Idaho in 1995 found that most people on a national (77%) , regional (73%) and local (62%) basis supported grizzly reintroduction to the Bitterroot."



I understand that I'm basing "the majority" on public comments received, but if the public doesnt take the time to comment on public lands and wildlife issues, I can only assume it isnt important to them, or they let those that feel compelled to comment have their way. Complacency on their part is not my problem. Thats what public comment periods are designed for, to see what the public opinion is.

I dont base public opinion on what a bunch of drunks at the long-branch in the bitterroot or the Jet Club in Orifino have to say about grizzly reintro...maybe thats where you come up with "the majority" oppose comment, I dont know...

Before I could comment on the "pork barrel bastards" I'd have to see from what sources the money for grizzly reintro would come from. Since this issue is pretty much at a stand still, I'd guess there isnt a whole lot of $$$ being spent. I know the Nez Perce tribes were funding quite a bit of the research, I also know that REPUBLICAN Conrad Burns funded a large scoping project to assess the quality of the grizzly habitat in there...of course he picked the guy to do the study. Which, by the way, blew up in his face as the habitat was MUCH better than what was quoted in the draft EA. If memory serves me correctly, the EA said the S/B could support like 290 griz, the burns study said it was probably closer to 350....

I was wondering if you've written Burns about the pork he's rounded up for that research yet?

Also, during the public comment period, if you or I dont like where the funding is coming from, thats the time to address those very kinds of issues.

Did you address that in your public comments????

Oh, and lets also not forget what the USFWS is mandated by YOUR laws and YOUR representatives to accomplish:

"The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is the principal Federal agency responsible for conserving, protecting and enhancing fish, wildlife and plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people."

Seems to me that if this is what YOUR representatives and YOUR laws want to accomplish, YOUR tax dollars should help fund these very kind of projects...

I'd have to guess some of the $$$ would come from PR funds, private sources, state F&G funds, etc. etc.

We'll see once this thing happens...

 

[Ithaca 37]

BHR, Can you give us any links to any polls or studies that confirm this, or is it just your worthless opinion? : "So Buzz, you support re-intro of grizzlies into Idaho, even though the majority oppose it."

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

You use a 10 year old survey conducted by U of I to claim the grizzly re-intro is favorable to the majority of people? Please! If the U of I would have funded a survey prior to the last election, their results would have been Kerry with a slight edge over Nader. You got your wild mutts in under the radar, be happy with that. Getting the grizzly's in will be a lot thougher.

Conrad's the king of pork procurement. That's why I didn't vote for him or Max for that matter. You keep refering to some lame lawyer language as to why YOUR pork is neccessary. There's almost 300 million people in this country with nearly as many agendas all wanting their little piece of the pie. Only about 1/2 actually pay any federal taxes with the top 10% paying for 60% of YOUR pork. How much do you actually contribute Buzz?

 

[MattK]

BHR- why is it that when a straight tax (no tax credits, incentives, etc., etc.) is discussed the large companies and rich of this country are the first ones to yell and scream. The second group to complain are those who pay nothing and get money back. It seems to me the only fair way to tax would be a flat % of income no tax breaks, no creative accounting. A flat % would be of no larger burden on those who make little and those who make a lot. Seems to me the only people who would agree with this is the middle class who work hard and get no tax credits. We would have a surplus in no time but large companies wouldn't have such a big dividend check at the end of the year.

One note on Conrad Burns- good Republican, tons of pork and caters to welfare ranchers.

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

I'd guess I contribute about the same as you do...check your W-2...

As to the ten year old poll...thats an example.

The comments received for the grizzly reintroduction EIS are public record and you can find them or make a FOI request.

I'll save you the bother though, as about 80% of the comments received were in favor. I'd also guess that any poll conducted today (except maybe at the Jet Club or Long Branch) would find 70%+ approval for grizzly reintroduction.

You need to study up on things before you make false statements like "a majority oppose grizzly reintroducion"...

Did you pick that up from the E.I.B. network????

I also disagree that grizzly reintroduction will be tougher, I think it will be easy as pie once Shrub is cut from the political tree. The grizzly plan has many things going for it that the wolf plan doesnt...

I'm not going to spoon-feed you the differences, you're the expert so you should already know why it will work.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

I haven't had a W2 in about 15 years. I'll wager a stone sheep hunt that I've been a better freind to uncle sam in that time frame than you have.

Good luck getting Hillary up to speed on your grizzly agenda, and good luck getting her elected.

Matt,

No complaints from me on a straight flat tax with no deductions for anything. When can we start?

 

[MattK]

BHR- try to talk to Conrad Burns or Denny Rehberg to get it started and I'll be in right away!

 

[BigHornRam]

Heck with those two, why not go straight to the top. Wasn't Bush talking about putting Forbes on some economic committee? Pay attention grasshopper. Some good things are going to get acomplished in the next for years! I know a lot of the libs are going to pretend it's a big logging protest and lay down in the middle of the road to shut things down. This time they may wake to find tire marks across them.

 

[BigHornRam]

Grasshopper,

What's the matter, don't want to play anymore? Afraid you can't swim so well in the deep end of pool? You can stay in the kiddy pool, I understand.

I'm guessing since you didn't support Buzz on his S. S. stance, you agree more with me. I'm also guessing that the grizzlies should be left to reestablish themselves in the Selway in you mind, instead of having some pork barrel project to speed things up. I'm also guessing that Buzzy doesn't buy into your flat tax idea. How am I doing so far?

 

[1_pointer]

I'd be all for a flat tax with no deductions. That way everyone pays relatively the same. I think it's ridiculous that those that require the most from gov. programs pay the least for them.

I don't know much about the grizzly/Selway issue, but is there any reason they wouldn't recolonize that area? Highways/cities in the way? Are some already there? If it is probable for them to natural disperse there I'm for letting them do just that. Seems to be simpler from this seat in the upperdeck.

 

[BuzzH]

Pointer,

There are no grizzlies in the selway/bitterroot.

The last confirmed, for sure grizzly sign was documented near Elk Summit by Bud Moore in about 1953ish.

Exhaustive efforts by the MTFWP, IDGF, Nez Perce tribes, etc. turned up not a single trace of any grizzlies in there. They did tons of hair snare sampling over a 5 year period and came up with nothing in the way of griz sign.

There may be an isolated bear here and there, but there certainly is not a population. I also think its highly unlikely that grizzlies will ever repopulate the S/B on their own. The nearest pop. of any size is the Bob Marshall, and they dont seem to disperse out of there too far. Plus the pop. hasnt grown enough to push bears into other areas...then theres the major highways, development, and griz phobia that runs rampant anytime a griz moves through an area....

According to Chris Servheen, the grizzly bear recovery coordinator, there will never be a population of griz without some sort of reintroduction. Its also fair to note that the S/B is about the only place in the lower 48 that has enough good habitat and is large enough to support a self-sustaining population of griz that doesnt already have them.

 

[BigHornRam]

Check out the General Distribution of Bears in Montana Map in the MT hunting regs. The grizzly range is expanding quite well on there own. Just give them time. Also if the gubbermint get's involved in grizzly reintroduction, every mauling after that will be the source of a lawsuit. More tax money pissed away on lawyers.

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

Call Chris Servheen, or stop by his office on the University of Montana Campus (Forestry Building), he'll answer your questions and set you straight on griz. and their management, you're not well informed.

 

[1_pointer]

Thanks for the info. Just didn't know.