Drill Baby, Drill

[Pagosa]

Per the DOT this proposed pipeline would be hydrostatic tested to 110 % of the max operating pressure. Pipelines are designed with cathodic propection, which creates a negative charged system. All hydrocarbons are corrosive in nature. There has been 5 plus 36 inch pipelines constructed from the Canadian sedimentary basin in the last decade alone. Keystone mainline and the Cushing extension were both constructed between 08-10.

Don't believe everything MSN or CNN says.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

Yes! Agree wholeheartedly. Now how do we get these companies to live up to their promises?

Hummmmmm....How about, you can have the pipeline if you don't sell any Public Lands Forever!!!!!!!!!! John

 

[Ben Lamb]

I don't watch MSN or CNN or Fox.

The question then becomes enforcement of what existing regulations are left, and whether or not the agencies in charge have anybody who can do this work, as well as the pipeline companies doing to required maintenance.

Also, if the people of Nebraska don't want the pipeline going through one of the largest aquifers in the nation which could effect irrigation and drinking water, shouldn't they have a say?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Hummmmmm....How about, you can have the pipeline if you don't sell any Public Lands Forever!!!!!!!!!! John

This is how collaboration starts. Be careful!!

 

[Pagosa]

Ben Lamb - I agree with your comment about these companies not living up to their promises. It's mostly the bloody consultants and contractors that let us down. Performance bonds to citizens might be an option.uy

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ben Lamb - I agree with your comment about these companies not living up to their promises. It's mostly the bloody consultants and contractors that let us down. Performance bonds to citizens might be an option.uy

The consultants creed: There's good money to be made in prolonging the problem.

Talk to me more about performance bonds. Sounds interesting.

 

[MattK]

One of the most important facts that is missing in the national debate surrounding the proposed Keystone XL tar sands pipeline is this – Keystone XL will not bring any more oil into the United State for decades to come. Canada doesn’t have nearly enough oil to fill existing pipelines going to the United States. However, existing Canadian oil pipelines all go to the Midwest, where the only buyer for their crude is the United States. Keystone XL would divert Canadian oil from refineries in the Midwest to the Gulf Coast where it can be refined and exported. Many of these refineries are in Foriegn Trade Zones where oil may be exported to international buyers without paying U.S. taxes. And that is exactly what Valero, one of the largest potential buyers of Keystone XL's oil, has told its investors it will do. The idea that Keystone XL will improve U.S. oil supply is a documented scam being played on the American people by Big Oil and its friends in Washington DC.

The fact that Canada has excess pipeline capacity is well known. In a Department of Energy report evaluating Keystone XL's impacts on U.S. energy supply over the next twenty years, the agency found that it will take decades for Canada to produce enough oil to fill existing pipelines. On page 90, the report concludes that the United States will import the same amount of crude from Canada through 2030 whether or not Keystone XL is built.

From Canada's perspective, the problem with existing pipelines is they all end in the U.S. Midwest and only allow one buyer - the United States. As Canada's Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver recently said, "we export 97 percent of our energy to the U.S. and we would like to diversify that." However, the Canadian government has put the brakes on the two pipeline proposals to export tar sands through its provinces due to the need to take more time to listen to its own public's concerns about water and safety.

Keystone XL would be Canada’s first step in diversifying its energy market. The pipeline would divert large volumes of Canadian oil from the Midwest to the Gulf Coast, where it would be available for the first time to buyers on the world market. To sweeten the deal, many of the refineries on the Gulf Coast happen to be located in foreign trade zones, where they can export Canadian oil to the world market without paying U.S. taxes. Oil Change International investigated this issue in a report that found the Keystone XL pipeline was part of a larger strategy to sell increasing volumes of Canadian crude on the international diesel market.

When Canadian regulators at the National Energy Board (NEB) considered the Keystone XL proposal in 2008, they asked TransCanada to justify another pipeline when there was already so much spare capacity. TransCanada conceded that Keystone XL would take oil from existing pipelines, increasing shipping costs. However, TransCanada argued that this cost would be more than offset as shifting Canadian oil from the Midwest to the Gulf would increase the price that Americans paid for Canadian oil by $3.9 billion.

In fact, TransCanada refused to support a requirement that oil on Keystone XL be used in the United States in a recent Congressional hearing. Earlier this month, Representative Edward Markey asked TransCanada's President Alex Pourbaix to support a condition that would require the oil on Keystone XL to be used in the United States. Mr. Pourbaix refused, saying that a requirement to keep oil on Keystone XL in the United States would cause refineries to back out of their contracts. That very well may be the case as Valero, one of the largest prospective purchasers of Keystone XL's crude, has already told its investors the its future business is in international export.

Simply stated, Keystone XL is a way to get Canadian oil out of the United States, not into it.

Interesting article...makes a lot of sense though...

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

Speaking of Pipelines, here is a section of 5" Wooden Pipe installed in 1923 that was used until a day in 1990 when it was replaced by a guy on a Backhoe using a metal detector didn't detect it! Pretty stout stuff too. John

 

[smarandr]

I don't watch MSN or CNN or Fox.

Hunt Talk is now my official news source. Whoduv thunk you could get more and better information from an internet discussion forum than from a "real" news channel?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ben Lamb - I agree with your comment about these companies not living up to their promises. It's mostly the bloody consultants and contractors that let us down. Performance bonds to citizens might be an option.uy

Yeah, because Canadian mining companies have a stellar record of cleaning up the messes they leave behind, not. You might want to spend a bit of time looking at EPA Superfund sites and Canadian companies here in the US. The bonds don't mean squat.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey Ben and Jose - Do you guys realize they is about 625,000 miles of pipeline installed in the U.S.? A majority was installed back in the 40's, 50's, and 60's before new technology
in the welding, steel, and NDT testing arrived on the scene. Let alone the environmental regulations imposed by FERC, NEB, etc. Why don't you guys go pound some tar sand?

Please show me where I made any comment about a "pipeline".

I will tell you what, I will go "pound some tar sand" and you can go kill yourself.

 

[noharleyyet]

I will tell you what, I will go "pound some tar sand" and you can go kill yourself.

Ummm, is that supposed to be a testimonial dramatization regarding the efficacy of big brother's regulatory acumen?

 

[WV Hunter]

Interesting article...makes a lot of sense though...

Interesting, but what's the source of the article?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ummm, is that supposed to be a testimonial dramatization regarding the efficacy of big brother's regulatory acumen?

I got no idea what you just said, you used two 5-syllable words in a row and lost me....

 

[noharleyyet]

That's the hydrocodone talking...lost myself, carry on.

 

[WV Hunter]

That's the hydrocodone talking...lost myself, carry on.

didju snort em?

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

SSSHHHHH! Ken's taking a nap! They will wake him up for some Tapioca pudding later. John

 

[theat]

Here is the link to the state departments web page for the Keystone XL EIS.

http://www.keystonepipeline-xl.state.gov/clientsite/keystonexl.nsf?Open

Here are a couple of interesting things I found while browsing through the EIS (not direct quotes):

TransCanada, had over 12 spills in the U.S. (30 if you count Canada) in just its first year of operation of the original Keystone pipeline. Some of those spills have yet to be cleaned up.

The State Department estimated it would create only 20 permanent jobs and about 5-6,000 temporary construction jobs... not the hundred thousand jobs proponents of the tar sands pipeline have been citing.

 

[sweetnectar]

The war heads sitting in silos across Montana pose a far bigger threat than an oil pipeline. Booo hooo...Someone call the wambulance and try and come up with the lamest excuses to not draw upon our natural resources or to not install a pipeline.
I say lets drill, install pipeline, and drive cadillacs with bull horns on the hood. I've sat through too many college courses where idiots arguing environmental issues had extreme paradigm malfunction to where they were even oblivious to how they survived child birth. "That dang oil....it is the devil...it ruins everything...'' Day in and day out I sat and listened to them get all worked up in negativism while at the same time they are enjoying a comfortable life all courtesy of the evil oil, the corporation, the wicked seeking of profit, the freedoms outlined in our constitution, etc.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The war heads sitting in silos across Montana pose a far bigger threat than an oil pipeline. Booo hooo...Someone call the wambulance and try and come up with the lamest excuses to not draw upon our natural resources or to not install a pipeline.
I say lets drill, install pipeline, and drive cadillacs with bull horns on the hood. I've sat through too many college courses where idiots arguing environmental issues had extreme paradigm malfunction to where they were even oblivious to how they survived child birth. "That dang oil....it is the devil...it ruins everything...'' Day in and day out I sat and listened to them get all worked up in negativism while at the same time they are enjoying a comfortable life all courtesy of the evil oil, the corporation, the wicked seeking of profit, the freedoms outlined in our constitution, etc.

Except that's not what most folks are saying.