Dont worry about the student loan forgiveness

[Irrelevant]

Agree. But there is no debate that, in general, a more educated workforce is a benefit, particularly in a service economy. There is no benefit to keeping the ignorant ignorant so we can have people work at fast-food places to keep the rest of us happy. To make my position clear, i think the forgiveness is a joke. It doesn’t do anything to fix the problems many have pointed out. It is political, but everything is. Hell, half the complaints on this thread revolve around “where’s mine?”. I think the PLFP is a great idea that does a lot to solve a particular problem, but there is political opposition to even that. Honestly i throw up my hands and say WTF on all this stuff.

I again, to play devil's advocate, you're imply education, in this case college, as a solution to ignorance. Correlation? yes Causation? no.

But we generally agree on this topic.

 

[SAJ-99]

A free market helps. Pick a dumb major and pay your own bill. Once the govt disconnects college choices from their actual cost there is zero chance to get it right - because I agree govt shouldn’t be picking winners and losers. But yesterday it decide that a person who took $10,000 of college debt wins, but the person who borrowed $10,000 to start a plumbing business loses. That is what sucks here.

Government forgave PPP loans. And let’s not forget that the entire tax system is structured to help the plumbing business. That plumber can immediately deduct the $10,000 as an expense and lower taxable income, same with the truck and fuel and a dozen other things used at “work”. The graduate is maxed at $2500 annually. So there is lots of suckage.

 

[VikingsGuy]

But we honestly know regardless of which party you raise a cup to the intrinsic value of this is to appeal to the squad base and buy votes with our money. I think the next big move will be to move forward with the Iran Nuclear deal and give Iran a trillion $'s and a path to nuclear POWER. Put things in a nice package and call them something sweet and you will change a persons tastes over time.

And now for something completely different . . .

 

[VikingsGuy]

Government forgave PPP loans. And let’s not forget that the entire tax system is structured to help the plumbing business. That plumber can immediately deduct the $10,000 as an expense and lower taxable income, same with the truck and fuel and a dozen other things used at “work”. The graduate is maxed at $2500 annually. So there is lots of suckage.

2500 per year so same outcome over time . And there is a big difference between deduction of costs from revenue and forgiveness of a debt which is pure income in every other circumstance (they are waiving it in this case). But I am open to an argument that college expenses are depreciable over 20 years of income earned as a direct result of required credentials. But that will never happen because the leviathan must be fed. (And it wouldn’t help people who overpaid for stupid degrees).

 

[Derek44]

Government forgave PPP loans. And let’s not forget that the entire tax system is structured to help the plumbing business. That plumber can immediately deduct the $10,000 as an expense and lower taxable income, same with the truck and fuel and a dozen other things used at “work”. The graduate is maxed at $2500 annually. So there is lots of suckage.

Many folks are comparing this to the PPP loans. While I realize that there were many undeserving or unneeding businesses that received those loans, it is still a terrible comparison. None of the recipients of those loans made the personal decision to close their doors or scale back their workforce. It was forced upon them by the government through mandates. Not a single student borrower was mandated to attend college.

 

[Jasher]

It doesn't matter who is happy or who is mad about this. The government no matter who is in office is going to spend money on stupid stuff. They don't care because they don't actually have to pay it back. My checks still look the same no matter who's in office. I think everyone can agree that the government needs to stop wasteful spending.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That provision was amended and revised by Adam Smith.

I think a functional society is one with capitalism but which does everything possible to make sure people aren't what's being sold.

Students were the commodity, and the interests rates...in my opinion were usurious. If you make teaching or nursing indentured servitude you're not going to have many nurses or teachers.

 

[Nick87]

Do you have to be vaccinated to receive this? Asking for a friend?

 

[Schaaf]

Check out this 5* bag of mozzarella.

 

[longbow51]

In Support Of Student Loan Cancellation, AOC Dons 'Tax The Poor' Dress

NEW YORK, NY — New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez showed her solidarity with Biden's move to use poor taxpayers' money to pay off wealthier Americans' student loan debt, donning a "Tax The Poor" dress and posing for pictures.

babylonbee.com

 

[VikingsGuy]

I think a functional society is one with capitalism but which does everything possible to make sure people aren't what's being sold.

Students were the commodity, and the interests rates...in my opinion were usurious. If you make teaching or nursing indentured servitude you're not going to have many nurses or teachers.

I absolutely believe higher Ed is broken, but this act of political patronage makes it worse not better. The culprits are an insatiable college system that cannot control its own costs or be honest with students of the worth/value/need for many of their offerings, and have used the federal trough to hide from it all.

 

[MThuntr]

Check out this 5* bag of mozzarella.
View attachment 235795

I see your cheese and raise you a bunch of frozen bananas still in their peels

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I absolutely believe higher Ed is broken, but this act of political patronage makes it worse not better. The culprits are an insatiable college system that cannot control its own costs, be honest with students of the worth/value/need for many of their offerings and have used the federal trough to hide from it all.

Yeah I agree... lol I feel like I even said that

My point are:

1. The money train needs to stop
2. I think it's reasonable for in instances of absolutely stupidity (ITT, Devry, whatever) for the burden to fall on the fed not the individual. Those institutions should never have been give an accreditation/allowed to receive federal funds.
3. Interests rates/payment plans got stupid, Obama/Biden tried to fund Obama care on student loans

 

[SAJ-99]

Many folks are comparing this to the PPP loans. While I realize that there were many undeserving or unneeding businesses that received those loans, it is still a terrible comparison. None of the recipients of those loans made the personal decision to close their doors or scale back their workforce. It was forced upon them by the government through mandates. Not a single student borrower was mandated to attend college.

It wouldn’t have mattered. Fear kept enough people home that those businesses needed the loans to keep from laying off people. Comparison not perfect, but they never are. It is still the government doing stuff with our money.

2500 per year so same outcome over time . And there is a big difference between deduction of costs from revenue and forgiveness of a debt which is pure income in every other circumstance (they are waiving it in this case). But I am open to an argument that college expenses are depreciable over 20 years of income earned as a direct result of required credentials. But that will never happen because the leviathan must be fed. (And it wouldn’t help people who overpaid for stupid degrees).

the student is limited to $2500 max. The plumber has no limit.

I like your idea. Again, logical conclusion for fairness. But you still need a committee to gauge stupidness of degree.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

It wouldn’t have mattered. Fear kept enough people home that those businesses needed the loans to keep from laying off people. Comparison not perfect, but they never are. It is still the government doing stuff with our money.


Am the student is limited to $2500 max. The plumber has no limit.

I like your idea. Again, logical conclusion for fairness. But you still need a committee to gauge stupidness of degree.

And the student loan deduction is income capped at $85k.

Imagine if we capped mortgage interest at an AGI of $85k people would lose their minds.

 

[Oak]

Are you people even kidding me? 19 pages?

 

[MTGomer]

Has anyone noticed how "fiscal conservatives" have signed off on every record setting deficit budget, from Obama to Trump to Biden's sending $ to Ukraine (I'm sure none of that money will find its way into Ukrainian oligarch bank accounts)? The only time "fiscal conservatives" get mad about spending is when direct relief is offered to Americans, admittedly a highly inflationary policy move during a time of record-setting inflation, but that's beside the point. Self-described "fiscally responsible people" love government spending! Don't let them fool you. On another note, my wife will benefit from the loan relief. I think we'll use the savings buy some AMC call options. You only live once!

If they governed like they campaigned they’d be good at governing.

What’s the saying? “When democrats have power, they wield power. When republicans have power, they whine.”

 

[MTGomer]

Are you people even kidding me? 19 pages?

I know. This has destroyed the pride I had in my modest 15 or so over a weeks time about ginger ale.

 

[Irrelevant]

And the student loan deduction is income capped at $85k.

Imagine if we capped mortgage interest at an AGI of $85k people would lose their minds.

Not this person. While we're at it let's stop paying people to have kids too. These tags ain't getting easier to draw...

 

[VikingsGuy]

Yeah I agree... lol I feel like I even said that

My point are:

1. The money train needs to stop
2. I think it's reasonable for in instances of absolutely stupidity (ITT, Devry, whatever) for the burden to fall on the fed not the individual. Those institutions should never have been give an accreditation/allowed to receive federal funds.
3. Interests rates/payment plans got stupid, Obama/Biden tried to fund Obama care on student loans

My solution going forward - a few simple common sense federal consumer protection laws.


1. Any post-secondary institution that receives any federal funding whatsoever may not increase any tuition, costs or fees related to attendance at a rate great than the preceding year's CPI.

2. Any employer who employs more than 50 employees or otherwise engages in activities that affect interstate commerce may not make any formal credential or educational status a requirement of employment unless such requirement(s) have a clear and direct relationship to the specific skills and activities required to carry out the job. [for example, a secretarial position can't require a misc. BA/BS]

3. Any post-secondary institution that receives any federal funding whatsoever, before offering any degree or credentialing, must exercise sufficient due diligence to determine the reasonable employment expectations and 10 yr salary expectations of such degree/credential (and where such expectations are compared against the median employment numbers and compensation rates of jobs that do not require degrees/credentialing) and provide clear and timely notice of such findings in all promotional materials and at the time of each and every period of enrollment.

4. Whether via bankruptcy, modified government alternative fee arrangement, or government forgiveness - any student loan debt that is forborne or forgiven, 50% of such cost shall be borne by the post-secondary institution(s) that collected fees related to the debt.