Dont worry about the student loan forgiveness

[noharleyyet]

It is very hard to get to the highest income levels without college, but that fact doesn't mean everyone needs it. If you want to go, then go, and pay for it. No has issue with someone going to college and not using their degree. The only issue seems to be when people go, take out debt to do so, then don't pay that debt back.

I work in a profession that requires a degree. I make about what my BIL makes in the trades. I had to pay (albeit very little) and he had to suffer with very low wages for a long time, both had their "costs". I don't think either of our routes is wrong, but he wouldn't have excelled at my route, nor I at his.

However, looking back, I think I could have been pretty damn happy as an electrician.

Propel Career Academy | Courses

Propel offers education and assessment services for the electrical trade and beyond in our first class facility in San Antonio Texas

propelcareeracademy.com

 

[VikingsGuy]

When a GOP congress driven by politicians from low-income tax states place an arbitrary cap on SALT deductions - it is clear political patronage/payback.

When a DEM party driven by young college-educated voters forgives college debts - it is clear political patronage/payback.

Same story, same game, same teams. None of this helps the nation.

 

[Nick87]

That's horrible advice, at least in my case it's been lucrative.

Experienced quite the opposite in my field. Worlds apart I guess.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Not a chance with my employer...

Aren't we your employer?

 

[BuzzH]

Aren't we your employer?

No.

 

[SAJ-99]

Two sides to that coin I feel. All the education in the world won't help anyone without work ethic, common sense and or experience.

Work ethic is probably a thing learned at home (and quickly disappearing). I don’t care if my heart surgeon has common sense as long as they have knowledge and experience in repairing the heart. But they don’t get the third thing without the first. To my previous point, anyone trying to get a nursing degree in less than 12 months is taking the quickest route possible. Do they have the work ethic? It’s why businesses require college degrees. It demonstrates that the person at least committed to and finished that task.

 

[noharleyyet]

Aren't we your employer?

 

[Hem]

Coexist?

 

[Doublecluck]

 

[Nick87]

Work ethic is probably a thing learned at home (and quickly disappearing). I don’t care if my heart surgeon has common sense as long as they have knowledge and experience in repairing the heart. But they don’t get the third thing without the first. To my previous point, anyone trying to get a nursing degree in less than 12 months is taking the quickest route possible. Do they have the work ethic? It’s why businesses require college degrees. It demonstrates that the person at least committed to and finished that task.

I can see your point there. I've met a lot of people with a degree who I wouldn't trust with a butter knife on the same note there have been just as many in thr trades I felt the same way about I suppose.

 

[woods89]

I'm just sitting here on break thinking how much I like these threads. I have a worldview only shaped by my experiences, and every time one of these discussions come around it gives me lots of different perspectives to ponder. And I think that's pretty cool.

 

[Nick87]

I'm just sitting here on break thinking how much I like these threads. I have a worldview only shaped by my experiences, and every time one of these discussions come around it gives me lots of different perspectives to ponder. And I think that's pretty cool.

Same

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Work ethic is probably a thing learned at home (and quickly disappearing). I don’t care if my heart surgeon has common sense as long as they have knowledge and experience in repairing the heart. But they don’t get the third thing without the first. To my previous point, anyone trying to get a nursing degree in less than 12 months is taking the quickest route possible. Do they have the work ethic? It’s why businesses require college degrees. It demonstrates that the person at least committed to and finished that task.

Exactly.

Say you have a heart attack and an Interventional Cardiologist puts in a stint.

BA 4 years->Med school 4 years -> 3 years IM residency (salary 58-75k depending)-> 3 to 4 years cardiology residency (salary 65-85k) -> 2 year Interventional Cards fellowship (salary 80-100K)

So 8 years of school + 8 to 9 years of training making on average less than 90k

Costs
BA/BS degree (50-150k)
Med School degree (50-150K)
MCAT, Residency Application fees, Step 1, Step2, Step3 exams, Fellowship application fees, travel expenses to interviews, moving expenses to programs (15-20K)

Add to this optional extras like a chief year + masters degree which are more and more common and add time and expense.

Not to mention regularly working 80-100 hr weeks during the 8 years of school

Now after all of this folks are going to want/need to be highly compensated.

These are just the facts. To your point you need training + a ton of hard work and drive to get there...and then to the larger point, after all that do people really expect you to then be selfless and work for pennies?

Obviously not, which is why there are massive distribution problems for physicians, and which is the whole point of programs like PSLF which a lot of folks want to eliminate.

Without PSLF you will just exacerbate healthcare issues in rural areas across the country.

Put plainly, we need certain professions, we want them to be extremely competent and we need them distributed all over the country, therefore we (tax payers) have to pay.

There ain't an easy button to this shit and partisan gridlock leaves us with half measures to problems.

 

[Doublecluck]

Spent long enough time in college to realize had I continued, I would have walked away with enough debt that the degree I held, what the jobs in that field would pay, would probably take a decade to pay off. Meanwhile while working a job to pay for college, the trade I was in, the owner was walking around with 20k cash in his pocket. Hmm! Simple choice.

My oldest daughter, very talented, multiple ivy college acceptance offers, 35-70k tuitions, parents that offered to match dollar to dollar her tuition as long as she pursued a major that would provide a job at the end that would pay for it. She choose to go to a Mormon college, graduated this year, debt free. Because it was cheap. Don’t seem fair to her.

 

[beginnerhunter]

Experiences vary by institution, personally I've never seen this, the institution I attended very much had critical thinking and free inquiry as a cornerstone.

My 2 cents is thats a Tucker C/ Bill O'Reily sound bite, but maybe it is true at some places.

I don't watch tucker or Bill (bill still on TV?) but I probably am a little "too online".

Still, the stuff I've seen from the colleges and unis I attended plus the ones I'm affiliated with now is enough to tell me it isn't mere "nut picking". But probably depends on what an individual thinks is nutty.

 

[noharleyyet]

It's 10 grand...that's like three weeks of salary for a tenured elite prof who has an aid do his remote video lectures, right...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Still, the stuff I've seen from the colleges and unis I attended plus the ones I'm affiliated with now is enough to tell me it isn't mere "nut picking". But probably depends on what an individual thinks is nutty.

I have a couple of buddies who are Professors... they definitely have some crazy colleagues, but I feel more often then not I see some article going off on indoctrination and then I go to the source of the matter and read it and I'm like "WTF". Kinda like when the news says "Bacon causes cancer" and then the article says "Eating a diet that has more than x servings of meat a day has been found to have a correlation with blah blah blah, in this distinct population, blah blah blah" and the study isn't actually a "study" but a chart review meaning some MD resident is looking at 500+ charts of patients and doing regressions on patient histories + conditions/outcomes... which rant for another day.

But yeah there are nuts , universities as a whole are nutty

 

[TheJason]

I seem to recall a slogan from 2020, that read “#*^@#* your feelings “. Does that still hold true?

 

[Nick87]

I seem to recall a slogan from 2020, that read “#*^@#* your feelings “. Does that still hold true?

Yes.

 

[noharleyyet]

I seem to recall a slogan from 2020, that read “#*^@#* your feelings “. Does that still hold true?

...post election sloganeering