Do you guys really believe that all ATV riders break the law?

[Ten Bears]

Why is it that every hunter who owns an ATV only uses it to get to their hunting area but we never see them parked ?

FCB,I find them parked at trailheads and road ends all the time. I see most of them still in the backs of trucks or on trailers. I have seen the "roadcruising seat bound slobs", but they come in all varieties of vehicles.

If ATVs are only used to retrieve wounded game, why do they take more than one???

To retreive wounded game? EG, Idon't think I heard anybody say they use them to retreive "wounded" game. As for the number issue, each ATV is rated for a single operator, and comes from the manufacturer with that recommendation on it. Some are being made now for two people, but they are still the minority. It would be my thought that if there is more then one ATV, then there is more then one hunter around, or in the case of my camp, we have some people who are there just to ride ATVs and enjoy the weekend.

Now elk cause stream erosion and uneducated non-riders cause ATV violations!

IT, the statement was that uneducated nonriders report/see ATV violation where no violation really occurred. I'm sorry that you can't/wont comprehend that. There's no limit to how far the fatassed [nonrider] crowd will go to avoid any responsibility.

Those who have hunted there during the past three deer seasons say the experience is far less enjoyable because deer killed on remote stretches of the property often have to be dragged great distances.

I took that as some of the hunters saying that they liked the remote hunts, not as ATV hunters complaining
about having to pack out game (?).

Our registration stickers in Idaho are about 4" by 5", maybe smaller. And we wrap them on the frame, under the gas tank. The only way you can see them is to stand on your head and wash the mud off. Not much risk in getting caught.

I know an inforcement guy that would like to run into you with your "hidden" sticker. I think he told a freind of mine (I was there) that "the sticker has to be visibly displayed in plain view".

One complaint I have about many here on this board is that they feel the need to complain about the issue they perceive as a problem, but when confronted with actually reporting actual violations, they have stated that it isn't "their" job to take the time to get the information and report it. Just like poaching, if you see it, and don't do your part to get the information to report the violation, you're just as bad as the person who broke the law.

To know what is right, and do nothing. Is the worst form of cowardise (Confusis)

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ten,

Why on would I want to waste my time chasing down registrations on 100's of Fat-Assed ATV riders breaking the law? I would never get any hunting done, as every flippin' one of them is either breaking the law or about to break the law. Why not just work the 10 months I am not hunting to get them all banned, so next year, I don't have to worry about turning them all in?

As I am sure you will agree, it is not YOU, but instead, it is "somebody else" that is the real problem. Well, given the appalling lack of responsibility of the Fat-Assed ATV crowd, it seems far simpler just to work to impose more "designations" on them, so eventually they will have designated areas to ride, as long as they keep them on their trailer in their backyard.

 

[guppie9]

Wow...our's are required to be in plain view on the body of the machine. It must be visible with a rider on the machine (i.e. you can't put it on the seat or behind yur leg where you sit). Maybe other states should consider this.

 

[Ten Bears]

EG, I would think that you would be interested in protecting the resource by isolating the violators instead of persecuting the innocent. How is you staement any different then that used by the anti-gun and anti-hunting crowds?

as every flippin' one of them is either breaking the law or about to break the law.

 

[IdahoCritterGetter]

I believe many do but I know many whom do not so theres my little say in this 20 page post, me myself always enjoy pat-n-bend soak up all scenery!

 

[cjcj]

We AZ boys know "exactly" where we are...when going offroad to retreive our "legally" tagged and killed big game... why would we ask any agency or fat-assed, lazy, donut sucking, paper pushing,snot nosed,uninformed,dipshit, government ,GS-1 1/2, overpaid boyscout, whether its ok? we don`t need their permission for anything ....WE KNOW THE LAW ...PERIOD.

 

[Casper]

We AZ boys know "exactly" where we are...when going offroad to retreive our "legally" tagged and killed big game... why would we ask any agency or fat-assed, lazy, donut sucking, paper pushing,snot nosed,uninformed,dipshit, government ,GS-1 1/2, overpaid boyscout, whether its ok? we don`t need their permission for anything ....WE KNOW THE LAW ...PERIOD.

CJ Can I ask something? what do you use for maps of your hunting area? I personally use the good ol stand by USFS maps, gives good enough detail to know where I'm at, lists closed area's, and when bought (yearly) you can find out if certin area's are closed to off road travel. Most USFS land is open in AZ for game retrivial (thank god for those years I've hunted alone) but other time they close area's off for "wetland rehab", "enviromental concerns" or some other reason, most time they are posted but not always.

So you can say in certinity that with out EVER asking that you are always in the right? I couldn't say that even when I've asked, cause often times the USFS receptionist doesn't know their head from a hole in the ground so they are less than 100% reliable. But I will say that I did my best to make sure it was alright before I got out there, most of the ATV operators I've seen past closed trails, or on unmarked (thus illeagal) roads in the NF often don't even go as far as buying a map.

quote:
Now elk cause stream erosion and uneducated non-riders cause ATV violations!

IT, the statement was that uneducated nonriders report/see ATV violation where no violation really occurred. I'm sorry that you can't/wont comprehend that. There's no limit to how far the fatassed [nonrider] crowd will go to avoid any responsibility.

Ten Bears, the statement by the "ATV" representitive listed in that article wasn't making a statement about "unknowing" non-riders, he was to busy putting hit foot in his mouth. To say that Elk cause as much damage at an elk crossing is like saying a ATV causes the same damage as an M1A1 Abrams. Yes I've seen animal trails that caused erosion into stream, but I haven't seen them churn trails 20-30 feet inot a hillside in a year or less like I've seen ATV's do in AZ, and that was in an area that only recieves an average of less than 7" of rain a year, so the rain sure didn't do it!

As to "non-riders" reporting riders to be in areas they aren't suppost to be, I would fathom a guess that more often than not that is NOT true. Often in Az when roads are closed it is either private, leased, or closed land for OHV use, just because an ATV or 4x4 can whip around that baracade or locked gate doesn't mean it is "open" and if it is open for vehicle use then a non-rider reporting it causes no harm because the reporting law angency will arrive see it is an "OPEN" area and just leave, if they even show up to begin with. So I fail to see how "uneducated nonriders" have anything to do with areas being close to ATV's and off road vehicles, the area's are being closed due to enviromental damage being done by people who do not follow the laws already there and as such are ruining the image of all ATV riders.

Bad stewardsmanship will kill ATV's faster than "uneducated nonriders" just the same as it will kill hunting, shooting, and all of the other sports we enjoy.

 

[JoseCuervo]

As 280 would say....

"Ten Bears got punk'd...."

 

[cjcj]

Casper i use a variety of maps...first outline G&F unit, then topo/ F.S/blm/state trust land/ etc. my "arrogant" responce is to guys from out of state who don`t have a clue to where i or others from AZ hunt.....If it counts for anything i am 50 yrs. young and have hunted AZ all of my life...never had a citation for wrongfull hunting or fishing of any kind...i know lots of people in game and fish, and BLM and we talk and pass info back and forth... but i am certain that there is enough info in "current maps" and G&F regs to be 100% certain of where i am and what i am doing there..so i don`t feel it is necessary to call and talk to someone who has "less" info then me... i have had G&F wardens/U.S.F.S. rangers help me load and or drive offroad to check out my downed big game. If i have to call then i call the warden who is in charge of the unit that i am in and this is just to get info that is not on any map or reg. I also use ranchers/BLM for this info....By the way i was out near Tonopah/Bouse/Hope/Salome checking out some quail spots.....looks pretty good around the cotton/alphalfa fields/mesquite thickets/ some farmers were "cool" and some were not. Anyway if i come off as "arrogant" or as a self-righteous know it all... don`t take it personnel.. i can assure you its not directed at you... its for the benefit of the "others" who try to "rag" on the AZ boys... when they don`t know what in the hell they are flapping their lips about...

 

[Casper]

CJ I didn't take your "arrgance" as directed at me, but felt some clearification was needed. Smart ass remarks is one of the biggest problems with the ATV crowds reputation. I personally think ATV's went for neat lil toys to serious work vehicles way to quickly, and as such they are generating problems with those who don't know what they are doing. First ATV's (trikes) were generally under 250cc now there is a battle to see who will have the first 800cc model avail, not to mention vehicles like the mule and gator which are golf carts on steriods. This power increase and ease of operation hasmade ATV's more popular, due to the outlaw of trikes back in the 80s/90s people now think atvs are safe so they can do what ever they want to on them, which also leads to problems both in terms of riding leagally and safely. For example there is at least one helo medivac in tonopah near my house EVERY WEEKEND, and I know of 4 deaths last year, deaths that happened on private property where the riders were tresspassing.

One of my biggest complaints to ATV groups (like "Riding Arizona" or "SWATV riders") is that when you inform a rider that he isn't doing something safe or leagal they will respond 90% of the time with hostility towards you, and refuse to listen. This IS the biggest problem that will lead to closure of all public lands and maybe even complete outlawing of ATV's except for certine aplications, do to the fact the ATV crowd seems intent to force themsleves onto everyone with their "I'm right, your not" attitude. Try as I might I've yet to get any of the ATV organizations in Az to realize this and impliment a program to encorage riders to be responsable in representing their sport, much like many hunting, fishing and firearm organizations do. Yes there are still slob hunters, but you are more likely to see an other hunter apologise and police his own than you are to see an ATV rider do it!

 

[Ithaca 37]

Exactly right. The fatassed crowd has a whole different mentality about riding their ATVs than other responsible recreationists. And the feeble self serving attempts by the Blue Ribbon Coalition and a few other ATV groups to educate and police their own have been a dismal failure. Even the BRC Director has been charged with a very serious violation recently!

 

[cjcj]

Casper i don`t have an ATV, and have never owned one...I actualy hate some of the idiots that drive them around here [young kids] they go up and down my road [dirt] behind my place. If i could i would put a gate on both ends of the road,i would but i can`t as it is a legal [easement] right of way for county/irrigation district...its just a couple of "Punks" that are the problem they throw dust in the air for 100ft.,, but i have even had to "remind" the new irrigation guys to slow down.... its a pain in the ass.... why even open your windows for fresh air?..or wash your trucks? inconsiderate jerks is what i have a problem with.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Caspar Punk'd CJ, AGAIN

"One of my biggest complaints to ATV groups (like "Riding Arizona" or "SWATV riders") is that when you inform a rider that he isn't doing something safe or leagal they will respond 90% of the time with hostility towards you, and refuse to listen. This IS the biggest problem that will lead to closure of all public lands and maybe even complete outlawing of ATV's except for certine aplications, do to the fact the ATV crowd seems intent to force themsleves onto everyone with their "I'm right, your not" attitude."

And then CJ just proved you right with his response.

(BTW, we just had a hunter on an ATV killed this weekend in Elmore County, some sort of accident. Just a short "blip" in the paper.)

 

[JoseCuervo]

And more law breaking by the Fat-Assed ATV rider...

Lost Creek man charged with cruelty in death of dog


CLARKSBURG -- A Harrison County man recently shot a dog multiple times, ran over it with an all-terrain vehicle, then shot it several more times, a deputy's court filing alleges.

David K. Marple, 19, of Lost Creek, is charged with felony cruelty to animals in the death of the dog.

The charge carries a possible penalty of one to three years in prison and a fine of $1,000 to $5,000, according to the office of Magistrate Warren "Gizzy" Davis.

Davis set bond at $10,000 for Marple, who was unable to post it.

The charge dates to a Sept. 21 incident, according to the court filing by Deputy T.S. Pratt. Pratt cited seven witnesses in obtaining the arrest warrant.

The dog was at or near a construction area at Marple's residence, which is located near Johnstown, Pratt's filing said.

First, Marple yelled at the dog, according to Pratt's filing. When the dog didn't come to Marple, he used a leash to drag the animal behind the residence, according to Pratt's filing.

One witness said she saw Marple shoot the dog three or four times with a handgun, according to Pratt's filing. Other witnesses said they heard three or four shots, according to Pratt's filing.

"Witnesses advise that Mr. Marple came back to where they were working and began bragging of killing the dog," Pratt wrote. "Several people saw the dog trying to crawl and advised Mr. Marple that the dog was not dead."

Another witness "advised that he witnessed Mr. Marple run over the dog with an ATV," Pratt wrote.

Marple went into his residence, got a camouflage "long gun" and shot the dog several times, Pratt wrote.

Pratt wrote that he recovered three shotgun shells after he was permitted access to the scene by Marple's grandmother. She also produced guns in her home, including a 12-gauge shotgun that Pratt said was the only camouflage weapon at the residence, according to Pratt's filing.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

EG , So what's your point ?
Is it ; dog training requires proficient marksmanship or ATV's are a poor choice as training tools ?

 

[Ithaca 37]

With a mentality like that you think "David K. Marple, 19, of Lost Creek" is going to be concerned about ethical and legal riding when he's on his ATV?

 

[cjcj]

Originally posted by ElkGunner:
Caspar Punk'd CJ, AGAIN

"One of my biggest complaints to ATV groups (like "Riding Arizona" or "SWATV riders") is that when you inform a rider that he isn't doing something safe or leagal they will respond 90% of the time with hostility towards you, and refuse to listen. This IS the biggest problem that will lead to closure of all public lands and maybe even complete outlawing of ATV's except for certine aplications, do to the fact the ATV crowd seems intent to force themsleves onto everyone with their "I'm right, your not" attitude."

And then CJ just proved you right with his response.

(BTW, we just had a hunter on an ATV killed this weekend in Elmore County, some sort of accident. Just a short "blip" in the paper.)

Gunner put down that bottle of "Crown Royal" you aren`t making much sense...you can save the purple bag for your "roaches"...smokem later ok?

 

[pa mt man]

I have a feeling that whatever that Marple asswipe touches, he'd break the law with it. Whether it would be alcohol, guns, cars, boats,ATV's or anything else. He doesn't make a good case to ban atv's.don

 

[Delw]

Poster boy for the fat assed ATV riders.

 

[cjcj]

LMAO DELW... Ok i`ll save 300 for Gunner" i`m off to try to find the "elusive" Giant Bull fearsome.... Wild Turkey.. Hope i don`t have to go offroad in my 4x4 truck to pick it up..