Devaluing Non-Residents

[TOGIE]

Hope that we can continue to have more threads about advocacy and what we need to do.

As someone who previously fell into the camp of "hunting is conservation" i have come to find that it isnt. And as ive said before and in my intro to the forum - my goal is to contribute more and take less.

People who want to be informed advocates need a hand, not pushed away. People who don't show up that need to, need convinced to do so - not belittled.

“Hunting is conservation” as a sportsmen’s motto definitely needs to die IMO.

 

[Forkyfinder]

“Hunting is conservation” as a sportsmen’s motto needs to die IMO.

Absolutely. Major cop out.

 

[EricW15]

Never hunted Wyoming, Colorado, Montana, Washington, Arizona, or New Mexico but I still care about the game management and access in each of the states. I have no aspirations about ever hunting half of the states I listed, but I may want to take a camping trip there and cast a line once or twice in my life and it would be cool to see some well managed wildlife while I'm there.

Why are so many hunters only interested in things they can blow a hole in? As conservationists shouldn't we be invested in conservation for conservations sake.

Very well said.

 

[GeorgeBlack]

Hunters are not conservationists????
Who pays the big dollars so you can have biologists,researchers,and all who care for the betterment of wildlife???
Environmentalists???…the people that only shoot with a camera???
All freeloaders.
May you should shut it down,bring in the wolves,they are part of nature,we humans are not!!!
How people get “educated “today to think they are better than the hunters.
And present themselves as advocates for wildlife,they know best!!
Hunters advocate with their money and their volunteering. As for the environmentalists/advocates
put on a dress and identify as girls. It is way cooler with today’s world.
I just don’t know how we got there,too old.

 

[elkduds]

Hunting is the small tip of the conservation iceberg. Melting pun intended.

 

[dgc1963]

I know folks get tired of hearing it, but if we want to double our draw odds, the easiest route is to double the number of animals on the landscape.

I wonder how much of the dollars go to over blown gov agency's instead of habitat and wildlife management I have no Idea but reading these posts make me wonder and I think most folks would even throw in some extra $ if it was going to directly expand herds
I live in Pa and hunt several western states I dont have an issue to the tag cost yes I wish it was the same as back in 1980 but nothing is. And I donate to help with different animal issues when I can, I kick in for sheep issues never got a tag prob never will but boy do I love it every time I see them !

 

[Forkyfinder]

Hunters are not conservationists????
Who pays the big dollars so you can have biologists,researchers,and all who care for the betterment of wildlife???
Environmentalists???…the people that only shoot with a camera???
All freeloaders.
May you should shut it down,bring in the wolves,they are part of nature,we humans are not!!!
How people get “educated “today to think they are better than the hunters.
And present themselves as advocates for wildlife,they know best!!
Hunters advocate with their money and their volunteering. As for the environmentalists/advocates
put on a dress and identify as girls. It is way cooler with today’s world.
I just don’t know how we got there,too old.

Kind of like doing the minimum i suppose. Yes you contributed. No you arent putting in effort or making a difference.

Youre a cook if you microwave dinner. Doesnt make you a good one or one that made something significant.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I wonder how much of the dollars go to over blown gov agency's instead of habitat and wildlife management I have no Idea but reading these posts make me wonder and I think most folks would even throw in some extra $ if it was going to directly expand herds
I live in Pa and hunt several western states I dont have an issue to the tag cost yes I wish it was the same as back in 1980 but nothing is. And I donate to help with different animal issues when I can, I kick in for sheep issues never got a tag prob never will but boy do I love it every time I see them !

For sure things get wasted.

If you want to look at how itd go if it was purely private sector - texas and europe are there for you to gauge value.

 

[Wyhunter]

In wyoming, licensing revenue is almost 60 million dollars. Most of that comes from NR tags/points ( around 75% of the total revenue). That 60 million accounts for about 65-70% of the operating costs for the WG&F. Of the total budget, 30 million goes back into different wildlife initiatives and 15 million to fish initiatives.

I would say that hunting and fishing absolutely contribute to wildlife and fisheries conservation. Obviously, there is substantially more that can be done, but that money goes a long way for the state.

Theoretically, the more we pay for for tags, both resident and NR, should benefit wildlife and conservation. The funds would have to be spent appropriately for that to happen, though.

Heres some info pulled from the last few years from wyo game and fish.

 

[Forkyfinder]

In wyoming, licensing revenue is almost 60 million dollars. Most of that comes from NR tags/points ( around 75% of the total revenue). That 60 million accounts for about 65-70% of the operating costs for the WG&F. Of the total budget, 30 million goes back into different wildlife initiatives and 15 million to fish initiatives.

I would say that hunting and fishing absolutely contribute to wildlife and fisheries conservation. Obviously, there is substantially more that can be done, but that money goes a long way for the state.

Theoretically, the more we pay for for tags, both resident and NR, should benefit wildlife and conservation. The funds would have to be spent appropriately for that to happen, though.

Heres some info pulled from the last few years from wyo game and fish.
View attachment 313911View attachment 313912View attachment 313913View attachment 313914View attachment 313915

Right. But how much was individually conserved or contributed - indepentdently of the license? By this argument - people who hunt outfitted land are also conservationists. Checking a box and providing value for animals is a pretty small piece of the pie.

Respectfully, if it was nothing more than paying for the tag and trying to use it - we wont be able to pass this on or continue to improve. If everyone just buys a tag and hopes to use it - when and how will improvement in wildlife come about?

Ironically- someone who participated in the political process and made a positive difference for wildlife there is doing more as "conservationist" than a hunter is.

 

[Wyhunter]

Right. But how much was individually conserved or contributed - indepentdently of the license? By this argument - people who hunt outfitted land are also conservationists. Checking a box and providing value for animals is a pretty small piece of the pie.

Respectfully, if it was nothing more than paying for the tag and trying to use it - we wont be able to pass this on or continue to improve. If everyone just buys a tag and hopes to use it - when and how will improvement in wildlife come about?

Ironically- someone who participated in the political process and made a positive difference for wildlife there is doing more as "conservationist" than a hunter is.

My argument is that it accounts for a portion of conservation that shouldnt be overlooked or tossed aside. Where would conservation be without that 45+ million spent each year? Anyone who buys a license, does contribute, no matter how small the number and most likely they are indirectly contributing. Much like a donation to St Judes. Every dollar helps.

Outfitted land hunters play a role as well (albeit a small one). We all do. If they are harvesting elk on a ranch that would be getting compensation for damaged crops, that money can now go elsewhere. They still have to pay for their tags as well, here at least.

As far as the politics go, its easy to say someone has made a positive change, but it also depends on what side of the issue each individual stands on. You can read through these threads and people wont agree on the color of the sky. I agree that a policy change to benefit the wildlife via politics, is the most powerful action. Just pointing out my perspective.

I am a full believer in being involed well past hunting season. There are a lot of things we can do as sportsmen and stewards of the land to help with conservation. People like Buzz are involved all of the time and all over the place. I personally, need to find more time and put in a bigger effort. Many of us should.

 

[elkduds]

I am a full believer in being involed well past hunting season. There are a lot of things we can do as sportsmen and stewards of the land to help with conservation. People like Buzz are involved all of the time and all over the place. I personally, need to find more time and put in a bigger effort. Many of us should.

Yep. If we would all reach this conclusion and act on it often we would be formidable. Or at least more credible in arguing w Buzz who keeps busy walking his talk.

 

[BuzzH]

I wonder how much of the dollars go to over blown gov agency's instead of habitat and wildlife management I have no Idea but reading these posts make me wonder and I think most folks would even throw in some extra $ if it was going to directly expand herds
I live in Pa and hunt several western states I dont have an issue to the tag cost yes I wish it was the same as back in 1980 but nothing is. And I donate to help with different animal issues when I can, I kick in for sheep issues never got a tag prob never will but boy do I love it every time I see them !

I think for a state agency the WYGF does a pretty good job with spending. Management isn't cheap.

completion reports here:

Wyoming Game and Fish Department - Game and Fish Commission Annual Reports

wgfd.wyo.gov

 

[406dn]

I'm a whiney wind bag for wondering why NRs are being treated like the enemy all the time.

I think that many resident hunters (I know in my case) begin to think NR's are the enemy when an air of entitlement becomes apparent. Any tag offered by a state to a non resident is a privilege granted by that state to a non resident. When you are a guest in a state, it is sorta rude complain about how large your slice if the pie is.

 

[Nicoli7153]

I think that many resident hunters (I know in my case) begin to think NR's are the enemy when an air of entitlement becomes apparent. Any tag offered by a state to a non resident is a privilege granted by that state to a non resident. When you are a guest in a state, it is sorta rude complain about how large your slice if the pie is.

And privileges are earned!

 

[noharleyyet]

I don't believe knowing you're being gouged and saying so portrays a sense of entitlement. I get it, no one is forcing me & have willingly paid the toll over two decades, but I have every right to shake my head & grin at the disparity.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I don't believe knowing you're being gouged and saying so portrays a sense of entitlement. I get it, no one is forcing me & have willingly paid the toll over two decades, but I have every right to shake my head & grin at the disparity.

Be quiet you are the enemy!

 

[noharleyyet]

Be quiet you are the enemy!

The enemy says privilege my azz...

 

[BuzzH]

Not once have I ever felt gouged buying a hunting or fishing license.

I dont even pay attention to the license fees. I held licenses last year in Texas, Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, and Nevada. Couldn't say what I paid for any of them, the application fees, stamps, tags, etc.

 

[mtmuley]

Not once have I ever felt gouged buying a hunting or fishing license.

No kidding. I walk out with a Sportsman's for under $100. I wish individual tags were near that. mtmuley