Deer Hunters - Opinion

[Mallardsx2]

I didn't see many opinion pieces on ND this year.

From the guys who hunter there, did it appear that the deer got hit hard by the winter of 2022?

I know they cut the tags way back. I was just curious if there were any firsthand experiences from people hunting western North Dakota.

 

[MNElkNut]

Didn't deer hunt, but I hunt pheasants in western ND twice per year and deer numbers appeared to be down, but not by a huge amount.

 

[brocksw]

Whitetails were hit hard by EHD along the Missouri River and west a ways. Last winter really hit hard in the central and SE part of the state and some other spots here and there. So overall, deer numbers are down. We’ve also had well over 3 million acres of habitat come off the landscape in the last 10-15 years. By habitat I mean 3 million acres of CRP, and an unknown number of acres of sloughs get drained/burned, tree rows/shelter belts get pulled, and pasture land get converted to row crops. So fawn recruitment is also down. Mule deer fawn recruitment is down because of drought and last years winter.

The baiting boyz think if we just start feeding all the deer, all will be better and the deer will overcome significant habitat problems, hard winters, drought, and disease.

Our Game and Fish had a bill introduced last session to expand their budget for a private lands habitat initiative that does not require an access component, but too early to see what that will look like as it’s only been a few months since the bill passed.

 

[Nick87]

well over 3 million acres of habitat come off the landscape in the last 10-15 years. By habitat I mean 3 million acres of CRP, and an unknown number of acres of sloughs get drained/burned, tree rows/shelter belts get pulled, and pasture land get converted to row crops.

If it's anything like here, once it's gone it's never coming back. That sucks.

 

[brocksw]

If it's anything like here, once it's gone it's never coming back. That sucks.

The baiting boyz are blaming the Game and Fish for the habitat loss. But to put this into context, that 3 million acres of CRP would cost roughly 150 million per year (give or take) to put back on the landscape. I think it goes without saying that is far beyond what ANY Game and Fish department can budget in a single year, much less year after year to keep it there.

We're still small enough and rural enough where I think ND can make significant strides in putting a lot of habitat back on the landscape. But it likely won't be the same as it was. Landowners are going to need incentives to put a CRP like program back on the ground to help whitetails. With new ag practices the way they are, I highly doubt we'll ever see tree rows and shelter belts come back in any significant way, and instead we will continue to see those come out of the ground.

Our Game and Fish also started the Meadow lark initiative a couple years ago to try and stave off some of the native grass/prairie conversion to row crops. But again, just hard to do on a large scale that will replace that much habitat.

Meadowlark Initiative | North Dakota Game and Fish

The Meadowlark Initiative is a partnership to promote and create healthy, thriving grasslands that provide biodiversity and prosperity for wildlife, pollinators, ranching operations and communities by supporting ranching, establishing grasslands, offsetting developmental impacts, promoting...

gf.nd.gov

Mule deer just need the weather variables to cut them some slack for a few years.

 

[CraneMan]

But to put this into context, that 3 million acres of CRP would cost roughly 150 million per year (give or take) to put back on the landscape. I think it goes without saying that is far beyond what ANY Game and Fish department can budget in a single year, much less year after year to keep it there.

That is why the Farm Bill is so important for sportsman to get behind and be involved with. Habitat programs of this scale will only ever come about with Federal money. I would argue that if it was not for the stupid ethanol and soybean subsidies, we would still be enjoying substantial CRP acreage and the incentives to break up existing habitats would be much less.

 

[icepirate]

From what I've seen and heard this year, i would say deer numbers are down around 50% where I live ( North Central part of the state). That might be a conservative estimate. It might be closer to around 75% down from the last few years. Last winter was tough on them, but habitat loss is our biggest issue. Driving back from work within the last week, I've seen 3 tree rows in the process of being ripped out and a nice little 3-4 acre old farmstead torn down with the trees still smoldering. Not sure what the answer is to get more funding for farmers to keep more habitat....It's hard to comprehend tearing down a few acres of trees when you farm 6,000 acres though. Pretty sure that isn't going to make or break their operation. I can't fault farmers for not enrolling in CRP though when its not even close to what they make farming the land. It would just be nice to see some tree rows/old farmsteads left alone and maybe leave more than a foot of grass on each side of a section line.

 

[CraneMan]

US taxpayers cover 60-70% of the crop insurance premiums for farmers. We are enjoying the benefits of the system put in place about a decade ago (2014 Farm Bill). Remove the impetus for growing corn and soybeans in what should be wheat and cattle country (the ethanol mandate that decreases fuel economy, and soybeans for export to China) and the system might come back into check and land that should not be farmed wouldn't be. Farmers can basically rip up the worst land, insure it, and when it don't make average yield for the area get paid the difference. We have basically turned grain farming into nothing different than what hammered the taxpayers under the TARP BS of 2009. Too big to fail.............. Blame them? Hard to do as they are just playing the system given to them. But I sure as hell won't support that system as a sportsman when I see no return on my investment, and I will no longer support farming programs via my votes and advocacy until I do see a benefit. Yet another reason why the farmer/sportsman relationship has all but disappeared, they don't need sportsmen and women's support. If one wanted to reduce the size of the Federal Government, you could start with one of the biggest pool of Government employees, farmers (number of farmers in US is almost equal to all other Federal employees), who got an average of $68 Billion/yr in Federal money 2015-2021.

US crop insurance provides billions in profit for insurers -gov't agency

Roughly one-third of U.S. government spending to insure the nation's crops since 2011 has gone to insurance companies that derive more than $1 billion in profit from the program each year, according to a government watchdog's report released on Monday.

www.reuters.com

Billions in federal farm payments flow to a select group of producers, report shows - Kansas Reflector

The top 10% of recipients of federal farm payments raked in more than 79% of total subsidies over the last 25 years — producing billions of dollars for a relatively small group of U.S. producers, according to a new analysis of federal data from an environmental group.

kansasreflector.com

 

[SAJ-99]

We have basically turned grain farming into nothing different than what hammered the taxpayers under the TARP BS of 2009.

By the time it ended, TARP made $10-20B, so I'm not sure that is the best comparison, but i do get your point.

The insurance programs are designed to limit food price volatility (and gasoline price volatility, given corn = ethanol). There certainly is some "fraud" involved, as there is with any system. A lot of farmers can't survive a bad year without it, but I agree that it shouldn't incentivize them to plow marginal land. CRP was a great idea when most Americans cared about the environment, but payments never kept up. The simple solution is to pay more in CRP but that would require that money to come from somewhere (PR?) and that means more taxes. There were certain political groups that sold CRP as paying farmers not to plant, and that didn't sit well with the average American. More recently I was optimistic over the last 5-10yrs that we could move to a market-based system for carbon capture that would reinvigorate the CRP program given the amount of carbon that is stored in grasslands. Then that became political, so...

I really don't know how to fix anything in this current environment. CRP still exists and still gets new enrollment. I tend to think it is not from the same demo group that signed up in the 1980's and 1990's. Not as many farmers and more "tree huggers", if you will.

 

[Nick87]

@CraneMan Beat me to a lot of what I wanted to add. Like he said who could blame them they're just playing the game in front of them. But that's what a lot of it has become is just who can play insurance game the best.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Sounds like the deer are getting kicked in the teethe big time.

I have seen the CRP and how it holds animals. I never minded the program (although I don't like govt handouts). I guess it's the lesser of two evils, soybeans/corn or CRP. Can't have it both ways, unless there is a program to offer a 50/50 split. That would be nice. I will say this, if you are receiving substantial subsidy money from the GOVT then I feel that your property should be open to public hunting.

Either way, sad to hear that the deer numbers are down after a good report in 2022.

 

[Nick87]

Sounds like the deer are getting kicked in the teethe big time.

I have seen the CRP and how it holds animals. I never minded the program (although I don't like govt handouts). I guess it's the lesser of two evils, soybeans/corn or CRP. Can't have it both ways, unless there is a program to offer a 50/50 split. That would be nice. I will say this, if you are receiving substantial subsidy money from the GOVT then I feel that your property should be open to public hunting.

Either way, sad to hear that the deer numbers are down after a good report in 2022.

I don't know anyone farming near us who doesn't have every single acre enrolled in a subsidy program. Most of which is also leased out for hunting. Except for the crop insurance adjusters they hunt for free.

 

[Jamen]

We process deer for hunters in the fall. We normally do around 100 each year. Some a hair less sometimes more. 3 years ago, we did 151. This year we have done 60. I would say that number down from our average correlates to what i have less n trail camera from last year. Id say i have 50% or more less deer on camera this year. That being said i think it is down statewide but to what extend depends on where you're at. I work with a guy they stopped counting this winter at 150 dead ones on their family ranch. Of the 60 people who have come in 2 have said they seen a good number of deer.

 

[brocksw]

We process deer for hunters in the fall. We normally do around 100 each year. Some a hair less sometimes more. 3 years ago, we did 151. This year we have done 60. I would say that number down from our average correlates to what i have less n trail camera from last year. Id say i have 50% or more less deer on camera this year. That being said i think it is down statewide but to what extend depends on where you're at. I work with a guy they stopped counting this winter at 150 dead ones on their family ranch. Of the 60 people who have come in 2 have said they seen a good number of deer.

What part of the state?

Did the rancher with 150+ dead deer say where he found them? I would assume fairly close to his yard where all the feed(hay, silage) was?

 

[CraneMan]

The analogy to Tarp is most relevant in that we act like farmers should never fail these days and some farmers should definitely fail because they are terrible farmers or make multiple bad decisions (just like some financial institutions did stupid shit causing the bailout)! Should all businesses succeed? Are your investments guaranteed not to lose? Do you get to ignore contracts and agreements you sign? Cadillac crop insurance has made farming almost fail-proof. I'm not against the option to buy crop insurance, I just figure that when farmers who already get huge tax breaks and receive Govt subsidies are being told by their advisors they have to buy a new truck (when they are currently driving a 2 yr old truck), tractor, grain bin, etc this year to avoid paying taxes to the Federal Government, they should be covering 100% of their own insurance. That would free up some money to increase CRP payments. Start enforcing existing wetland drainage laws and that would free up the subsidies that those farmers receive; a hundred million here and there, coupled with some innovative partnerships and pretty soon you can afford a habitat program that pays a fair price. It would basically just be redistributing the money back to farmers anyway, only society would be getting something in return. BTW: Ranchers, who at least keep grass on the landscape, sure do get the short end of the stick compared to grain farmers huh?

 

[Nick87]

BTW: Ranchers, who at least keep grass on the landscape, sure do get the short end of the stick compared to grain farmers huh

As do the dairy farmers.

 

[Jamen]

What part of the state?

Did the rancher with 150+ dead deer say where he found them? I would assume fairly close to his yard where all the feed(hay, silage) was?

South of valley city. They don't actively ranch anymore so I'm not sure what their hay inventory would be. They did have game and fish down there to look at it. The snow was so bad down there I'm guessing they ran out of food.

 

[brocksw]

South of valley city. They don't actively ranch anymore so I'm not sure what their hay inventory would be. They did have game and fish down there to look at it. The snow was so bad down there I'm guessing they ran out of food.

I only ask because I know in years past the Game and Fish arrives at calls like that and find a bunch of dead deer with bellies full of corn or hay. Ranchers/farmers find dead deer in or near their feed yards and think it was just the winter/cold/ice/snowfall, and certainly sometimes it is that simple. But more often than they think, it was actually access to that feed that killed them. If I remember correctly, 1 quart of corn can kill a fawn in the wrong conditions. I hear many many stories of a ranchers finding dead deer within a quarter mile of their hay or silage pile in the dead of winter. Even stories where they're pulling dead deer out of the silage pile itself. That's not just "winter" that killed those deer, but that access to an abundance of feed that their stomachs couldn't handle.

 

[SaskHunter]

Not ND but not too far North of the border, 2022 and 2023 sucked for deer. No where near the numbers we had in the past.

Whitetails were doing alright-ish last year, but this year was definitely worse. Fewer does and very few mature bucks. I did see lots of younger bucks as I usually do, but no where near the amount of "better" bucks I usually see and pass on.

Mule deer on the other hand have taken a solid hit. I have one spot that they're still doing okay in given that it is adjacent to a massive no-hunting sanctuary (military base), but everywhere else the numbers are way down. Passed several small bucks during archery and filled my antlerless tag this morning in my one spot where the doe numbers have stayed steady.

We've had two very bad winters in 2021 and 2022 with heavy early and late snowfalls. Both with a period of mild weather or rain that created a crust on the snow. We've also had droughts in 2021, 2022 and 2023 and most of the sloughs have been dry since 2021 if I remember correctly. Those sloughs just are going to take years of good moisture to fill back up, if they ever do fill up...

 

[mdhunter]

We had EHD bad in 2021 in Maryland where I live. We had a similar outbreak years before and the deer numbers certainly rebounded but it took a while. Last night I was sitting in a stand and saw four bucks but none were over three years old. I am afraid there is no quick fix and it will simply take time for the herd to recover.