Ollin Magnetic Digiscoping System

Corner Crossing - Where to go from here?

Big Fin

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Now that the Montana corner crossing bill was voted down by a straight party-line vote in committee, it is time to think of the next step on this topic. The topic is not going away.

I am copying a couple posts from the other thread, to start this one and give people more background. This bill, if passed in Montana, will lay the roadmap for doing the same thing in other states, as much of the defense that opponents use is based on the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution. Defenses you will see are not valid, based on the information below.

In the last day, a brief was prepared by the premier access law firm in the Rockies, the Goetz Law Firm here in Bozeman. See the attached images below that show their findings.

Their findings are - For the reasons set forth herein, HB 235, if passed into law, will not constitute a taking and is constitutional under the Montana and Federal Constitutions.

Jim Goetz is the attorney who argued the stream access case in 1986 that went all the way to the Montana Supreme Court, giving us our current stream access law. He also successfully defended MT FWP Commission in front of the US Supreme Court in the Baldwin v. Commissioner case, a case that determined that hunting was not commerce and therefore the Interstate Commerce Rules of the US Constitution did not apply when charging different/higher license fees to non-residents.

I have hired Jim to do work in the past. One of the smartest attorneys I know. His firm is filled with the brightest minds on this topic.

In this brief that it is shown that corner crossing not a “takings” issue and does not interfere with the private property rights of the adjacent private landowners, per the Montana and Federal Constitutions.

So, where are these folks going to run and hide now that the most respected law firm on this topic has found there to be nothing unconstitutional about this bill. Talk about hypocrisy. The next time one of these tea baggers try to tell me they are a property rights advocate, I am going to break into hysterical laughter, right in front of them.

Read the brief yourself. Here it is below.
 

Attachments

  • Legislative Brief HB 235_Page_1.jpg
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Folks, to move this along further, it is going to take a serious show of force. We are looking at the other options to get this through the legislative process. It might take a day or two to figure it out, but if we can use one of the other legislative processes, we will need to show up in masses, plug emails, make more phone calls than ever.

The remaining sponsor, Rep. Hill, is looking for help from hunters to get this passed. When it happens, she will let us know how we can help.

Once we know when/how that process will work to use different legislative measures, we will let you know. I hope all of you will take time to participate in that effort.
 
Rep. Hill is saying that there could be a blast motion (requires 60 votes) to move the bill out of committee.

If you want to see this move forward, contact your representatives now, and get your buddies to do so as well.
 
Some may not know that this bill had a Republican co-sponsor, Rep Kerns. When the vote came today, partisan politics prevailed and he caved to pressure, voting against a bill that he co-sponsored.

If any of you know him, please let him know what you think of flip-flopping. You can reach him at this link on the legislative website:

http://www.leg.mt.gov/css/sessions/63rd/legwebmessage.asp?LegSessID=4168&Name=KRAYTON KERNS

This is going to get interesting. We have the winning hand in court and the pot has grown to be one of the biggest pots in the recent history of public access. Who wants to play poker?
 
Rep. Hill is saying that there could be a blast motion (requires 60 votes) to move the bill out of committee.

If you want to see this move forward, contact your representatives now, and get your buddies to do so as well.

Too bad my representatives are the D bags that always vote in favor of outfitters and are the push behind returning back to unlimited breaks tags.
 
Thanks for the link Fin, the email(s) have already been sent and I'm ready to join the fight further if it comes to that. I'm utterly disgusted w/ these "representatives". Who the hell are they representing anyway?
 
Just sent him one too saying how disappointing it was to hear that the co-sponsor of a Bill voted against it!!! Please continue to keep all of us "outstaters" in the loop so we can help, as needed.
 
I sent Kearns a note, hopefully it doesn't get booted by the system because of my CA address, but I told him I pay NR fees because of Public Access and if he wants to flip-flop on a co-sponsored bill and treat hunters and non residents as hostile I'm happy to hunt another state and share my opinion on multiple internet outlets.
 
Top Gun - You post on a lot of other sites. Feel free to link this stuff to other sites, where you find appropriate. Don't offend any site owners in the process. :)

Defeating those false claims under the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution by passing this bill here in Montana will defeat those same claims when made in all other western states. This is not just a Montana issue.
 
I worked for Kerns on his ranch in Wyoming for a couple summers. I sent him a message and will ask him what gives if I can catch him in person in Helena.
 
I think it was Lawnboy that said something to the fact of almost being embarrassed to being a registered republican - I couldn't agree more. Much more of this crap and I'll be an unregistered republican or I should say unregistered anything.

We gotta change the ingredients of the ice cubes up there in nutville.
 
A good read. Thanks Randy.

I wish this was released early on... it would have been great ammo to get further support.

It is one thing to share our opinions here, with friends and elsewhere to build support though it is another thing to share professional legal opinions.

Hope this fight stays strong!

edit added: Message sent to the link provided.
For those seeking the link again: [http://www.leg.mt.gov/css/sessions/63rd/legwebmessage.asp?LegSessID=4168&Name=KRAYTON KERNS

Seems the legal opinions have their arguments...

Article II, section 29, and the Fifth Amendment do not prohibit the government from interfering
with private property. Rather, these provisions restrict the government’s power to physically
appropriate or condemn private property. The U.S. Supreme Court has stated that the takings
clause is “designed to bar Government from forcing some people alone to bear public burdens,
which in all fairness and justice, should be borne by the public as a whole.” Armstrong v. United
States, 364 U.S. 40, 80 S. Ct. 1563 (1960).
The courts have established several rules for determining whether an interference with property
constitutes a taking. For example, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that a permanent physical
occupation of property by a government constitutes a taking. See Loretto v. Teleprompter
Manhattan CATV Corp., 458 U.S. 419, 102 S. Ct. 3164 (1982). In addition, a governmental
regulation that deprives a property owner of all economically beneficial use of the property also
constitutes a taking. Lucas v. South Carolina Costal Council, 505 U.S. 1003, 112 S. Ct. 2886
(1992). Outside of these categorical rules, courts will apply a case-specific analysis to determine
whether a taking has occurred. Penn Central Transp. Co. v. New York City, 438 U.S. 104, 98 S.
Ct. 2646 (1978). Recently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a temporary physical invasion may
constitute a takings for purposes of the Fifth Amendment. See Arkansas Game and Fish Comm.
v. U.S., 133 S. Ct. 511, 518 (2012).
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2013/LRC/LC1079.pdf
 
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Tea baggers have done nothing constructive in my state either. They are not for the common man dont let them fool you. Hopefully other means for this change are found.
 
Tea baggers have done nothing constructive in my state either. They are not for the common man dont let them fool you. Hopefully other means for this change are found.

Woah there partner, let's not go that far. They may be sh*tty on this issue, but painting them with that broad brush might be cause for a little disagreement. You don't like it if the other side paints you with that big ole brush either.
 

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