pointingdogsrule
Well-known member
Thanks Katqanna. I would have NEVER guessed that there are laws regulating fencing. Wonder if Iowa has these laws?
good luck to all
the dog
Corner Crossing Referendum Filed
- Thread starter Ben Lamb
- Start date
Thanks Katqanna. I would have NEVER guessed that there are laws regulating fencing. Wonder if Iowa has these laws?
good luck to all
the dog
What if the fence is not for the "containment of livestock"? Guessing there are fences taller than 48" all over MT legally because they are not for the containment of livestock...
It is an uphill battle to be sure.
We've seen three attempts to make corner-crossing explicitly illegal this session. We've seen the first attacks on Habitat Montana in the form of HB 651, we've seen a simple bill get turned in to a tag grab, we have more bills that would set seasons in statute for limited gains of 1-2 individuals, we've seen attacks on the budget of FWP and we have a bill that would blow a $2 million hole in FWP's budget headed to the Governor's desk. We still have more attacks on Habitat Montana on the way in the form of amendments to HB 5 that would strip the authority of FWP to purchase lands for wildlife conservation and increased access.
I think many of us felt like it was time to make a stand. If the majority wants to follow through with their professed love of the sportsmen and women of Montana, then they can show it by letting Corner Crossing get on the ballot in 2018.
We expect the hearing to be set for tomorrow, and there is a rumor that as retaliation, HB 566 will come back as well.
teej89
Well-known member
Message sent
You know, I don't "corner cross" now. So, if "corner crossing" becomes illegal . . . . . Nothing lost and nothing gained. You can't loose something you never had. So, why not put it to a vote by the residents of Montana.
I sent in my message to each of the members of the House Judiciary Committee just asking them to vote for this bill on the premise that it puts this issue before the residents of Montana to decide.
I always make a point to send the same message to my representative whether they're on the Committee or not. I let my message be "told/heard" to the person who is suppose to be representing me in Helena.
I sent in my message to each of the members of the House Judiciary Committee just asking them to vote for this bill on the premise that it puts this issue before the residents of Montana to decide.
I always make a point to send the same message to my representative whether they're on the Committee or not. I let my message be "told/heard" to the person who is suppose to be representing me in Helena.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Representing my districts are Rep Kerry White and Sen Jed Hinkle. I always include them in a message to the whole body or to committees, but it's almost like if I am advocating a certain position ... they vote against that position.
Rep White is a pro PLT legislator and even an advocate for Utah's American Land's Council. Sen Hinkle is a strict "party line" Republican. I personally don't think my views are represented at all. If you ask how they continue to be elected, you will see a perplexed look and much head scratching in consternation.
I hear what your saying. Keep telling your friends and co-workers who have similiar hunting values and maybe . . . . Just maybe you can get someone elected in your district that has the same hunting values.
In my "district" when these folks come knocking on my door to get me to vote for them, I ask them questions of where they stand or their perspective of issues (hunting, or otherwise) that are of concern to me. Their response will tell me a lot about the candidate. I would love for my already elected representative to come knocking, because I would probably let them know I don't agree with them just voting by party line and I would ask them why they voted the way the did on certain bills.
In my "district" when these folks come knocking on my door to get me to vote for them, I ask them questions of where they stand or their perspective of issues (hunting, or otherwise) that are of concern to me. Their response will tell me a lot about the candidate. I would love for my already elected representative to come knocking, because I would probably let them know I don't agree with them just voting by party line and I would ask them why they voted the way the did on certain bills.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Finally, after all my haranguing of Senator Hinkle about being a "party line" guy, he emailed me explaining that he was carrying a Montana Sportsmen Alliance and Democratic Rep's bill onto the Senate floor. Perhaps there is a glimmer of bipartisan hope after all.
katqanna
Well-known member
edit: wrong thread, sorry
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antlerradar
Well-known member
A few ways to make it more landowner friendly.
Require that the corner be marked. Most corners are likely already marked with a survey pin but some are not. Those corners should be found and marked. Today's GPS's are accurate but not exact. Almost every trespassing hunter I have had to deal with has claimed that they thought they were on public land. I have even heard "My GPS says this is public" even though they were a good 1/2 mile from the public. I can hear the excuses now. My GPS said the corner was here. Requiring that the corner be marked would eliminate that excuse in court for those that intentionally cut the corner. I understand that it would take time and money to locate and mark the corners but it would be money well spent by sportsman.
Require the use of ladders if there is a fence. No landowner wants people crossing the fence at a infinitely small point. Just not that easy to do. Again money well spent by sportsman.
Combine corner crossing with a steep increase in the fines for trespassing. As a landowner it is very frustrating to find a trespasser, get lied to or worse, go through the time to wait for law enforcement only to have them walk away with minimum fines.
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Eric Albus
Well-known member
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- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,739
something to ponder, aka, brain fodder.... just remember what you give is what you get.... when corner hopping becomes legal(doubtful, but possible) it is then legal for me to cross the corner of your property to get to the post office....when do we stop? when I walk through your living room stop by the fridge first and have a beer or three, because that's an easier way to the post office?(not to mention more refreshing) I can make cases for both sides, and see both sides, can some of you?
RobG
Well-known member
What the hell are you smoking Eric? It will still be illegal to set your foot on the property.
Frenchy
Well-known member
Your attempt at comedy (I hope) failed..... Badly.
Corner Crossing does not equate to any of which you implied.
Corner Crossing does not equate to any of which you implied.
Commercial GPS accuracy would result in lots of feet being set on people's property that don't want it if corner crossing is applied broadly...
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Eric, this was not your finest hour. Terrible delivery, terrible planning, and terrible execution. You get zero points.
Nunyacreek
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2013
- Messages
- 279
If this were to be a referendum would the acto of corner crossing then be set up for a constitutionality claim? It seems to me that perhaps whichever side won would then be able make a n argument. It's easier to foresee a takings claim if the referendum legalized it, but would the reverse also be true; if corner crossing was shot down in a referendum vote I think we'd be in the status quo - not illegal, not legally sanctioned.
My guess is that there is no way opponents of corner crossing want this decided by the Supreme Court. Way too risky. If opponents of corner crossing figured they could win I think we'd have seen aggressive trespassing prosecutions. Because there have not been said prosecutions I think we can infer that opponents aren't sure they can win that fight.
My guess is that there is no way opponents of corner crossing want this decided by the Supreme Court. Way too risky. If opponents of corner crossing figured they could win I think we'd have seen aggressive trespassing prosecutions. Because there have not been said prosecutions I think we can infer that opponents aren't sure they can win that fight.
katqanna
Well-known member
Just as with Stream Access and Bridge Access history, they don't want corner crossing getting established in court.
But this legislative session saw some sneaky attempts to make it illegal, ever so quietly.
With all the work I do with access law cases and these histories, I have seen some very interesting things. I know exactly what the antis are afraid of. Personally, I am glad that Jacobson's corner crossing did not go further, it was not the right language.
Corner crossing is not a taking of the private, it is a connecting of the public!
But this legislative session saw some sneaky attempts to make it illegal, ever so quietly.
With all the work I do with access law cases and these histories, I have seen some very interesting things. I know exactly what the antis are afraid of. Personally, I am glad that Jacobson's corner crossing did not go further, it was not the right language.
Corner crossing is not a taking of the private, it is a connecting of the public!
Eric Albus
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,739
shoots, was not shooting for points.... was attempting to make some think of a point of view other than their own. I have heard and understand the corner hopping argument from both sides.... the a frame ladder walk-way plan to access checkerboard lands is not a bad idea...until someone puts one over the top of my house to get to the post office.... where does it stop once it starts is all I ask.
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