Conservation Easements Podcast Episode

[Big Fin]

It's taken some time for me to get to this project, but it has been on my list for a couple years. Given many Montana elected officials have decided it's time to attack conservation easements in Montana, I made it a priority to get this one done. Thanks to Jennifer and Kendall for joining me.

Between just RMEF and MRL, immense amounts of property has been conserved by willing landowners who enter into donations or sales of their property rights. I think this podcast does a good job of explaining the basics of CEs and why they can be so effective in the right situation. And hopefully it leaves people questioning elected officials who are opposed to CEs, which is an opposition to allowing a property owner to do what they want with their property.


Episode Description....

Randy discusses conservation easements with Jennifer Doherty of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and Kendall Van Dyk of Montana Land Reliance, both who have extensive careers helping private landowners conserve their landscapes with conservation easements (CE). Topics covered include CEs, CEs as one of many tools working landowners need, willing-seller/donor exercising one of their property rights, when a CE is the best tool, a CE isn't always the solution, tax issues involving CEs, myths around CEs, the role CEs play to conserve lands on vast and expensive landscape, and many other topics about keeping working lands in working hands.

You can listen or download at this link, or get wherever you get your podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...tical-landscapes/id1012713381?i=1000683459802

We also have a tab at the top of the forum page called "Hunt Talk Radio" that will take you directly to our podcast page.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Thanks to Jennifer, Kendall, and Big Fin for an extensive, informative discussion and explanation of conservation easements, with great examples of the benefits to all, interjected with an appropriate sprinkle of humerous Newberg political sarcasm.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Obligatory spotify link

 

[SixPoint]

It's taken some time for me to get to this project, but it has been on my list for a couple years. Given many Montana elected officials have decided it's time to attack conservation easements in Montana, I made it a priority to get this one done. Thanks to Jennifer and Kendall for joining me.

Between just RMEF and MRL, immense amounts of property has been conserved by willing landowners who enter into donations or sales of their property rights. I think this podcast does a good job of explaining the basics of CEs and why they can be so effective in the right situation. And hopefully it leaves people questioning elected officials who are opposed to CEs, which is an opposition to allowing a property owner to do what they want with their property.


Episode Description....



You can listen or download at this link, or get wherever you get your podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...tical-landscapes/id1012713381?i=1000683459802

We also have a tab at the top of the forum page called "Hunt Talk Radio" that will take you directly to our podcast page.

This was fantastic. Thank you very much for taking the time to put this together and putting it out on your platforms. It is so important to get the truth out there regarding Conservation Easements. Also, Kendall's the man.

 

[NoWiser]

I look forward to listening to this. I was able to save our family farm here in MN with a Conservation Easement. It’s taken 4 years of nightmarish paperwork and countless hours of work on the land but it’s finally done. Prairie has been reestablished and wetlands have been restored. Wildlife is flourishing. A local developer was drooling over it and now he’ll never be able to get his hands on it. The benefits this land will provide for future generations is exponentially more than another housing development could ever provide. I will always be a proponent of Conservation Easements.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Recenly a new book came out, entitled The Crazies: The Cattleman, the Wind Prospector, and A War Out West. It's the story of ranchers whose land has been in the family for 150 years and whose next generations want to keep the land by continuing cattle, sheep, and ag production. In order to make ends meet they have worked on a plan for years to have wind farms augment income. The neighboring uber wealthy nonresident landowners of Crazy Mountains land have opposed the plan and sued. Montana PSC, as well as Northwestern Energy, has thrown up roadblocks. It is a debacle of frustration for Montana hard working hands-on-the-lands families, seemingly being bullied by rich and powerful entities from elsewhere who are buying up the Crazies and other Montana treasured land at an unbelievable and deplorable rate.

'Don't want to pile more on your already full plate, BF, but this situation seems begging for a CE solution. If you have any contacts in the Springdale - Big Timber area, perhaps you could give them a shout and share the podcast.

 

[RandanP]

Great episode, listened to the whole thing.

Looks like there should be another easement term bill coming together any day now, LC 2184.

 

[Ben Long]

Great work. This is kind of "insider baseball" but crucial for those of us who want to pass some of this way of life on to future generations. Thanks for the great interview. (Although next time I would shake Kendall down for more tips on elk hunting. The dude is a master.)

 

[shoots-straight]

Thanks bunches Randy. This will get passed around.

 

[WanderWoman]

How Montanans Use Habitat Dollars to Protect Working Lands | Montana Association of Land Trusts

montanalandtrusts.org

 

[Beignet]

Just listened to this on a drive through the Bitteroot Valley. I’ve often wondered what this part of Montana would look like had there been more easements.

Episode should be required listening for every state law maker and county commissioner.

 

[Jock Conyngham]

Such a valuable podcast, Randy, particularly in light of the current dogma against and upcoming attacks on permanent easements. Thanks to you, Kendall, and Jennifer.

 

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[FamilyMan]

@Big Fin
If you have a minute perhaps you can help clarify something. You went to great lengths in the podcast to make clear that there is no loss of property tax revenue to the counties associated with conservation easements (of which I am a big fan, by the way). You also gave the example of how the old woman could preserve her family's ranching legacy by avoiding overwhelming inheritance taxes by placing a conservation easement on her ranch, which lowered the appraised value of the ranch to below the threshold where inheritances taxes are required. My confusion is this - property taxes (at least in my neck of the woods) are based on the value of your land, so if the easement reduced the appraised value, why would there not be a reduction in property tax and thereby a reduction in property tax revenue to the county?

Hope my question makes sense. Not trying to argue with you, just trying to understand.

Also, are there any bills related to conservation easements being considered by the Montana legislature this session that we should be contacting our representatives about?

Thanks

 

[RandanP]

@Big Fin
If you have a minute perhaps you can help clarify something. You went to great lengths in the podcast to make clear that there is no loss of property tax revenue to the counties associated with conservation easements (of which I am a big fan, by the way). You also gave the example of how the old woman could preserve her family's ranching legacy by avoiding overwhelming inheritance taxes by placing a conservation easement on her ranch, which lowered the appraised value of the ranch to below the threshold where inheritances taxes are required. My confusion is this - property taxes (at least in my neck of the woods) are based on the value of your land, so if the easement reduced the appraised value, why would there not be a reduction in property tax and thereby a reduction in property tax revenue to the county?

Hope my question makes sense. Not trying to argue with you, just trying to understand.

Also, are there any bills related to conservation easements being considered by the Montana legislature this session that we should be contacting our representatives about?

Thanks

Agricultural land is Montana is valued based on the productive capacity of the land (soils) and the use of the land (wheat fallow/grazing/irrigated alfalfa, etc). CEs don’t change soils, but may change some use, but that is a prerogative available to all landowners. It would be very difficult to appraise all of the AG land according to value. This is a simpler method and easier to keep fair and equitable.

 

[Big Fin]

@Big Fin
If you have a minute perhaps you can help clarify something. You went to great lengths in the podcast to make clear that there is no loss of property tax revenue to the counties associated with conservation easements (of which I am a big fan, by the way). You also gave the example of how the old woman could preserve her family's ranching legacy by avoiding overwhelming inheritance taxes by placing a conservation easement on her ranch, which lowered the appraised value of the ranch to below the threshold where inheritances taxes are required. My confusion is this - property taxes (at least in my neck of the woods) are based on the value of your land, so if the easement reduced the appraised value, why would there not be a reduction in property tax and thereby a reduction in property tax revenue to the county?

Hope my question makes sense. Not trying to argue with you, just trying to understand.

Also, are there any bills related to conservation easements being considered by the Montana legislature this session that we should be contacting our representatives about?

Thanks

Montana has an Ag classification available to anyone with more than 160 acres, and even 20 acres, if they complete the forms.

That allows these ag lands to be valued at extremely low values for property tax purposes, far below what a conservation can do to lower values.

Example - A rancher outside of Bozeman owns 1,000 acres with creeks, etc. For this purpose, let's assume it would appraise at $10 million without a conservation easement. With even the most restrictive Conservation Easement, I doubt I could get the value under $4 million.

With an ag exemption, it will likely be appraised at $400K-800K for property tax purposes, possibly lower. The property tax value the county will assess it on is the lower of those numbers, which is the ag value with the ag exclusion on it. So, lowering the value by $6 million with that most restrictive CE I could imagine still won't bring it below the $400-800K it is already being taxed at as agricultural property.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[FamilyMan]

Montana has an Ag classification available to anyone with more than 160 acres, and even 20 acres, if they complete the forms.

That allows these ag lands to be valued at extremely low values for property tax purposes, far below what a conservation can do to lower values.

Example - A rancher outside of Bozeman owns 1,000 acres with creeks, etc. For this purpose, let's assume it would appraise at $10 million without a conservation easement. With even the most restrictive Conservation Easement, I doubt I could get the value under $4 million.

With an ag exemption, it will likely be appraised at $400K-800K for property tax purposes, possibly lower. The property tax value the county will assess it on is the lower of those numbers, which is the ag value with the ag exclusion on it. So, lowering the value by $6 million with that most restrictive CE I could imagine still won't bring it below the $400-800K it is already being taxed at as agricultural property.

Hope that makes sense.

Absolutely makes sense. Thank you for taking time to explain. I did not catch on about the ag exemption until now.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Absolutely makes sense. Thank you for taking time to explain. I did not catch on about the ag exemption until now.

Montana Property Taxes: Does my land qualify as agricultural land? - MSU Extension | Montana State University

www.montana.edu

Here's a quick reference. Note that it take a
about 1500 dollars worth of clever accounting....

 

[westbranch]

I look forward to listening to this. I was able to save our family farm here in MN with a Conservation Easement. It’s taken 4 years of nightmarish paperwork and countless hours of work on the land but it’s finally done. Prairie has been reestablished and wetlands have been restored. Wildlife is flourishing. A local developer was drooling over it and now he’ll never be able to get his hands on it. The benefits this land will provide for future generations is exponentially more than another housing development could ever provide. I will always be a proponent of Conservation Easements.

Did you go through MN Land Trust? My brother and I are currently working with them on conservation easements for the family farm property in MN, about 660 acres total. It is very rural and not your typical development pressure. About 2 hrs north of Twin Cities, 1 hour west of Duluth. If it ever sold it would be divided into 20-40 acre chunks with campers/small cabins for deer hunting, ATV riding, etc. It has happened to quite a few local farms over the last 30 yrs since it is not good farm country. More value as recreational property and too rural to be primary residence for many people.