Colorado Wolves

[Ben Lamb]

It looks like it has in the other western states they introduced wolves in to.

It hasn't. Wolves have made managing elk and other species more difficult, to be sure, but they cannot be solely blamed for declines when there are several other factors involved - primarily habitat based.

I'm not in favor of re-introducing wolves to CO, personally.

 

[JohnCushman]

They are already here, like it or not. There was one killed in Kremmling a few months ago. Where there's one, there's more....

 

[Muley_Stalker]

mdunc..........It was just an example of a subject with strong arguments on both sides.

The problem with the wolf problem is the side saying wolves are no problem are either the tree huggers or biologists. neither of which I listen too.

As an example. Colorado biologist used to say we had 10,000 bears in the state. Then they discovered they were wrong, and we now have 18,000 bears all of a sudden. Bear tag numbers went up right away. They also claim we have no grizzly's and wolves in Colorado. Even though they've been sighted many times.

I prefer to listen to the hunters who have hunted the same area for decades, and know what the elk herds look like. Now those herds are way down in numbers. Nothing new has caused this to happen, except wolves.

I can't see how adding another predator can be good for big game.

 

[tjones]

I've kept up on this since 95 when wolves were introduced. It's like global warming, and has two sides who claim to be right. As a hunter i've taken the side that wolves aren't good for elk herds. You should be too. Here's an article for one side.


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Thanks for the advice.

For the record I am against Colorado wolves but should it happen it's not the end of elk.

 

[Muley_Stalker]

No, not the end, but it won't help them. At some point we'll be hunting wolves.

 

[Big Fin]

I prefer to listen to the hunters who have hunted the same area for decades, and know what the elk herds look like. Now those herds are way down in numbers. Nothing new has caused this to happen, except wolves.

I've provided comments for the CO issue, opposing the wolf expansion idea related to your original post.

That said, I would suggest using a pretty heavy filter when relying on elk-wolf information that relates to the Northern Yellowstone Herd. Here are a couple tidbits that will counter what I highlighted and bolded above.

One thing that was "new" was that MT FWP had 2,200 cow tags for that herd, even at the time that article was written. The success rates were off the charts for elk now residing on winter ranges. During the period of big decline, we were killing 2,000+ pregnant cows from that herd, which in effect was 2,500+ elk if you could expect a 25% calf recruitment rate. We did that for years.

The outfitter quoted in the comment you posted, Bill Hoppe, was one who screamed the loudest when FWP finally started reducing cow tags in that herd. He wanted to keep outfitting hunters to shoot these pregnant cows, but blamed it all on wolves.

The legislator quoted in that article, Joe Balyeat, also was a big sponsor for HB 42, a bill that forced MT FWP to reduced elk numbers to objective, no matter what. As such, if every wolf in MT died of disease 10 years ago, we would not be allowed to increase elk numbers in units at or over objective, thanks to the bill Balyeat helped get passed.

Those are actions that some will not tell as the rest of the story explaining some contributing factors to the decline of the Northern Yellowstone Herd. I provide them here, so you can see it was much more than wolves that hammered that herd to where it is now.

Yes, wolves do have a big impact. Shooting thousands of pregnant cow elk on their winter range for years on end will have a much bigger impact.


Back to your original post, I hope all of you will write CPW and ask them to adopt alternative #2.

 

[Muley_Stalker]

Lots of arguments on both sides Randy. I think we all agree that we don't need wolves.

I actually think wolves are pretty cool. I like them. However, I don't want to hunt for them, because they're killing too many elk.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Predators are weird.

No one bats an eye at a bighorn sheep reintroduction, but you stick wolves and grizzlies into the mix and people go bananas.

Animal rights people are against some of the sheep/goat reintroductions (Goats in La Sal mountains), because of the damage they can cause for the flora. Hunters are for the re-introduction in hopes of having a hunt-able species.

Animal rights people are for the reintroduction of wolves and grizzlies to help manage the hunt-able species. Hunters are generally against the re-introduction, because of the decline in hunt-able ungulate species.

That is weird to me how that works. It might be a ploy to slowly push hunting out the door.

I believe that if they are introduced they should be introduced in a way to provide hunter opportunity, which may not be the case (Wolves in Wyoming).

So, it is a double edged sword. You could end up with a hunt-able population like Idaho or be stuck with no way to manage them like Wyoming.

I do like the hunt-able approach.

I do not know if Colorado is a good place to introduce wolves. I do know while living there that Black Bears are pretty prevalent, especially around Walmart at night in Steamboat Springs. Though, black bears are not great predators the state seems to be struggling at controlling the population. In 2012 (drought year) Aspen had 1040 bear complaints. That is just the city of Aspen. To say that Colorado would be good at managing wolves when they cannot manage black bears would not be correct.

I did send an email opposing the wolves, but not because they will kill all the elk. I sent it, because I think the black bear problem needs to be managed before they should look at adding another variable to the equation.

I do believe that predators should be managed like any other big game species with population objectives and hunting seasons.

 

[tjones]

Good post Dude, but don't forget lions. They kill plenty.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Good stuff, Randy.

I'd add that if we followed Balyeat's lead, nobody would be hunting wolves in the west & delisting would be a pipe-dream. Because MT & ID stuck with their plans, we were able to make good on the promise to restore state management, no thanks to the Hoppe/Balyeat crowd who opposed us every step of the way.

As for the comment of listening to guys who have hunted and area their whole lives, I can't think of anyone who has done more to elevate the issue than TJones. He, Shoots Straight and the boys in the Bitterroot fought tooth and nail for management while their elk herd was devestated. But they also knew that the herd suffered from a number of issues, not just wolves. They fought to eliminate excessive cow harvest, they worked towards more restrictions on bulls and they did incredible work on getting real, valid information through a study that is informing wolf management across the Rockies today.

So when TJones speaks, it's wise to listen.

 

[MN Public Hunter]

You want to see our elk herds wiped out? Your problem isn't ours.

Oh come on...help us MN hunters out.... We thought the same thing, we would just hunt them and then the tree huggers keep trying to pull the rug out from under us...3000-4000 wolves is just not enough they say even though the number was to be 1500 to be off the list. For sure don't let them bring "extra" in to establish themselves. Good luck !

PS. I put out a thread in other forums as well, hopefully that will help out as too.

 

[Oak]

Nice job, RMEF.

http://rmefblog.blogspot.com/2016/01/rmef-letter-to-colorado-parks-and.html

 

[Dinkshooter]

The CPW cannot fund itself on the current NR elk tag sales it will be a hoot after license sales drop due to lower elk populations

 

[Muley_Stalker]

Nice job, RMEF.

http://rmefblog.blogspot.com/2016/01/rmef-letter-to-colorado-parks-and.html

I hope it does some good.

 

[Southern Elk]

Email sent. I would encourage all locals to attend the meeting and be the voice for the rest of us.

 

[theat]

I was working with a few biologists in Colorado a few weeks ago. We spent a good bit of time discussing wolves in Montana and Colorado. None of them were too keen on having wolves in CO, and seemed to think that a "reintroduction" would be very unlikely. They did believe that wolves would naturally repopulate parts of the state over time.

 

[JohnCushman]

According to CBA the wolf lovers are going to be there in force and even bussing people in from out of town for the meeting

 

[Zach]

They are already here, like it or not. There was one killed in Kremmling a few months ago. Where there's one, there's more....

Yup, already here. I've seen 1 up in the NW part of the state. Didn't have time to shoot that big yote.

Time to start building wolf points... The horror.

 

[airlocksniffer]

I'm not strictly pro-wolf or anti-wolf. Reintroduction has to include management through hunting. I think wolves are really fascinating animals and were here long before we were. I also wonder if elk herds that have not had any wolves around take the biggest hit but slowly recover and develop a balance. An example-I was hunting in SW Montana this fall. One thing I often hear is that elk won't bugle when wolves are around. Saturday night, a pack starts up about a mile way and howls for 30 minute solid. Really spooky and really awesome. Definitely makes the place feel that much more wild. Not 1 minute after they stopped howling the elk around our camp started up and bugled all friggin' night!! We had a least 9 different bulls withing 1/2 mile, not to mention one walked within 10 yards of our tents!! Now, these elk have been around wolves for generations from the Yellowstone herd. So maybe they have re-learned what elk knew all along. Maybe they got a kill and the elk around us knew they would be full for awhile. We also saw a lot of elk too.

Here is a link you may have seen from Montana Outdoors talking about the decline of the elk herd in the Bitterroot. At least in this case, wolves weren't the main culprit for the decline despite the everybody pointing the finger that way.

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2014/BitterrootElkResults.htm#.VpQdHOfntag

Once again, like politics, sometimes the best way isn't all one way or another but somewhere in the middle.

 

[Zach]

Not sure if I'll make the meetings. I'm working down in the Springs and extremely busy.