Colorado Assault Weapons Ban Submitted

[Sagebrush1]

Banning a specific tool (for law-abiding citizens) that is used very rarely (by criminals, who are not going to follow any laws) to murder people is going to make our kids safer? I don't think so. Those that trade freedom for security end up with neither.

I specifically said, in the previous paragraph, that banning guns will not solve anything.

What I’m saying here is that kids getting killed in school is a problem. Full stop. The solution posed by a ban will not work, but it is still a problem

 

[LuketheDog]

There are many things that could have been tried: expanding mental health care, education programs, background checks ( I know….gasp and clutch your pearls), storage laws….I’m sure there are more things.

FIFY...those are things that have been tried, right here in Colorado, along with red flag laws and magazine limits. Perhaps changing how the laws we already have are implemented instead of knee-jerking additional regulations into place would be a better path?

 

[RobertD]

Learned this recently: Mid20th century US had as many as a few hundred psychiatric beds per 100K of population. Number today is something like 17 per 100K. Lots of severely disturbed folks walking around today who simply would not have been when some of our older HTers were children.

 

[Doublecluck]

You know how some people spend 10 or 15 years complaining about their job instead of taking action to change things, and then after that 15 years they realize that they’re still where they were all that time ago? Nothing changed because they didn’t TRY.

For the person that did change, Maybe the first idea didn’t work, maybe the second, or third, but they kept trying because they were making an HONEST attempt to change something.

The NRA/GOP ideological complex is an example of that person who refused to take action. They just sit down and pout.

ONE (let alone dozens) school shooting is enough to make a ton of people want to “ban guns”. It is an emotional and illogical reaction to a horrible event…but it is happening.

There are many things that could have been tried: expanding mental health care, education programs, background checks ( I know….gasp and clutch your pearls), storage laws….I’m sure there are more things.

But instead, people just dig their mule-like heels into the ground and made petulant, selfish, simple-minded, “don’t tread on me” noises.

What I’m endeavoring to say is that doing nothing, when you are outnumbered, and facing a real problem (Gun violence is a real problem. It may not be my problem, or your problem really, because we’re not horrible people, but it is A problem. A problem that the majority of Americans want to do something about- regardless of the accuracy of their perceptions. It is THEIR reality,) will get you nowhere.

From a selfish perspective, as a gun owner it would benefit ME to work with the people who disagree with me. No matter how hard that is. Otherwise I look like a callus, uncaring fool who is unable to perceive nuance.

So here we are 15 years later, and we’ve done nothing, but we’re still complaining about people wanting to ban guns. I’d much rather have an expanded mental health program I don’t like, or a stupid storage law, than the man outlawing my guns completely. Life is about compromise. If you’re completely unwilling to compromise on anything, ever, then your acting a fool.

You’re not saying anything that wasn’t said 20-30 years ago (by gun owning hunters) in places like California, where assault weapons are illegal and huge public mental health programs exist. And mass shootings still occur, and more gun laws still come.

Compromise- ok let’s compromise with the other side. The media and big tech can’t publicize the name or event of any mass shooter. Shred the first amendment a little. The gov is good at censoring and controlling information after all. If killing people is the only way these nut jobs feel they can be heard, then silence them.

 

[huntergirl_19]

Next covered this pretty well last night:

Lawmakers to consider gun bills in legislative session (including one Dems aren't ready to talk about)

Colorado lawmakers will consider new gun bills in the legislative session, but if the first day is any indication, the process could be slow.

www.9news.com

 

[COEngineer]

I specifically said, in the previous paragraph, that banning guns will not solve anything.

What I’m saying here is that kids getting killed in school is a problem. Full stop. The solution posed by a ban will not work, but it is still a problem

That's fair. But what I implied from your statement is that anyone who supports the 2nd Amend as is (protection against tyranny) is responsible for children being murdered. Is that not what you were saying?

 

[Sagebrush1]

That's fair. But what I implied from your statement is that anyone who supports the 2nd Amend as is (protection against tyranny) is responsible for children being murdered. Is that not what you were saying?

No not at all.

I’m saying that the canned response to children being murdered, by most of the folks on “our side”, is tone-deaf and not helpful or personally beneficial.

I would argue that, by being unwilling to have a discussion with people who want to repeal the 2A (that to me is the opposite side of the spectrum from a strict 2A defense) as a result of murder of children, it makes the 2A argument seem heartless and cruel.

It is as if one is saying “oh well, nothing we can do, sorry.” In response to something as horrendous as the murder of a child. It doesn’t fit the situation.

 

[rjthehunter]

Apparently someone doesn't understand what figuratively speaking is.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

They're going to keep pushing until people start shooting back. Just saying...

Well before you start shooting cops remember they have families at home and are just doing their job/ enforcing the law and probably actually agree with you to some extent.

 

[MTLabrador]

They're going to keep pushing until people start shooting back. Just saying...

Those people will probably be using Vortex optics that won’t hold zero, so there’s not much to worry about.

 

[R.K.]

Illinois legislature passed one.

They only passed it today, I thought? And won’t go into effect until 2024?

 

[R.K.]

Well before you start shooting cops remember they have families at home and are just doing their job/ enforcing the law and probably actually agree with you to some extent.

I know some that do- grew up in southern Illinois. And they will flat-out refuse to enforce said laws. Remember- they have to live in the same towns that they have to enforce these laws in. That becomes impossible when the entire population is against it.

HOWEVER. As time goes by, the weapons become less common, and personal connections break down, this will come to an end. Don’t look at the immediate situation- look at it 10, 20, or 50 years down the line.

 

[rjthehunter]

Well before you start shooting cops remember they have families at home and are just doing their job/ enforcing the law and probably actually agree with you to some extent.

I never said anything about shooting cops... It's clear to say you missed the point.

My wife is a cop and so are several family members. I would never suggest that. That being said, I also don't know any cops that would enforce something like this.

The point I'm making is that the government won't stop taking rights away until there's resistance to their stupid rules.

 

[rjthehunter]

Those people will probably be using Vortex optics that won’t hold zero, so there’s not much to worry about.

Oh you mean like the cursed Leupold that was just sold? If memory from a couple days ago serves correctly, it struggled to hold 0?

 

[MTLabrador]

Oh you mean like the cursed Leupold that was just sold? If memory from a couple days ago serves correctly, it struggled to hold 0?

Just a joke. The scope I just bought wasn’t a Leupold or a Vortex.

 

[SAJ-99]

The fact of the matter, if you review the stats, shows that most murders are committed with handguns by inner city blacks.

"Nationwide, handguns are by far the most commonly used firearm type in murder cases, and in Colorado, handguns were used in 141 of the 202 murder cases involving firearms."

Over Half of All Homicides in Colorado Are Committed With a Gun – 24/7 Wall St.

Homicides surged in the U.S. by nearly 30% in 2020, the largest annual increase since record keeping began. The same year, U.S. firearm sales hit an all-time high of nearly 23 million, increasing 24% from 2019, according to consulting firm Small Arms Analytics. The increase in gun sales at the...

247wallst.com

Routine Google search...

The point of baning 'assault weapons' is to disarm right wing oriented people.

Interesting. You went with “most murders are by blacks” but could have easily said “suicides outnumber murders”, but those are mostly by whites so, yeah interesting choice. You can makes stats say whatever you want them to say.

 

[thefacilitator]

Interesting. You went with “most murders are by blacks” but could have easily said “suicides outnumber murders”, but those are mostly by whites so, yeah interesting choice. You can makes stats say whatever you want them to say.

Table 13

ucr.fbi.gov

Fbi table 13

Edit: I realize I cited the wrong statistic here, I meant to cite table 43 not 13:

Table 43

ucr.fbi.gov

 

[SAJ-99]

Table 13

ucr.fbi.gov

Fbi table 13

Not questioning the stat. Only your selection of the stat and the conclusion it was “The point of baning 'assault weapons' is to disarm right wing oriented people.”

 

[thefacilitator]

Not questioning the stat. Only your selection of the stat and the conclusion it was “The point of baning 'assault weapons' is to disarm right wing oriented people.”

Ya I suppose that's the conclusion I draw.

I mean if most murders are committed with handguns by blacks/African-Americans then why would there be a push to disarm 'assault weapons'? Well who owns 'assault weapons'? Right wing oriented people.

 

[SAJ-99]

Ya I suppose that's the conclusion I draw.

I mean if most murders are committed with handguns by blacks/African-Americans then why would there be a push to disarm 'assault weapons'? Well who owns 'assault weapons'? Right wing oriented people.

Let me be more blunt. Your argument sucks.
More white people kill themselves with handguns, so are you ok with a law to ban handguns? Arguing that “right-wing oriented” people own assault rifles doesn’t say anything. Do those people committed acts of mass violence? Probably yes, but definitions are debatable( after all it’s your definition). Do they own more handguns and rifles? Probably yes.
If you want an answer to your question, handguns are owned by wide section of the population, who also tend to be pro 2A and vote. Some right some left. A whole lot of “middle”. That’s why. Most people don’t own “assault weapons”, or at least don’t think they do. So definitions do matter, but it’s got nothing to do with race.