Kenetrek Boots

Coal Bed Methane

Think about a CBM field next to Glacier Park.

Debate surrounds potential coal-bed methane work in British Columbia

By Susan Gallagher
Associated Press Writer

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AP PHOTO
David Thomas, a member of the Fernie City Council and a critic of potential coal-bed methane development in the area, pauses recently at Coal Creek near Fernie, B.C.




FERNIE, British Columbia -- Coal mining created this town in 1904. But a century later, talk of tapping southeastern British Columbia coal fields for natural gas is raising alarm here and next door in Montana.

Some Fernie leaders worry the new coal-bed methane industry could harm the environment, threatening the town's growing identity as a Rocky Mountain ski and summer destination. To the south, Montana is apprehensive about water quality in the Flathead River system, which flows from British Columbia into Montana. The North Fork of the Flathead forms the western boundary of Glacier National Park.

"What's emerging is a coalition concerned about the crown of the continent," said David Thomas, a member of the Fernie City Council. "We are under assault."

With five open-pit coal mines operating just north of Fernie, population 5,500, the town is in major coal country. But opposition arose in the community and in Montana when a Canadian company proposed opening a new coal mine close to the border, just six miles north of Glacier. Provincial officials blocked that project in May.

With the mine snuffed, attention has turned to the prospect of extracting natural gas from coal seams.

The process that turns ancient plant material into coal also produces methane gas, which is trapped underground in the coal seams. Drilling can release that methane gas, but it also produces water that usually is trapped with the gas.

Coal-bed methane is a growth industry in the United States. But a contentious issue has been how to handle the large volumes of water. The water often is very salty.

Some farmers and ranchers in the Powder River Basin of Montana and Wyoming, one of the most active areas of coal-bed methane development, contend the water is unfit for their livestock or crops and fear it could contaminate groundwater. Conservation groups in the United States have filed a number of lawsuits attempting to block plans for expanded development in the basin.

Officials and residents of Fernie share many of the concerns of their American counterparts.

"Our concern is that the government is woefully unprepared to address the impacts that coal-bed methane may have on our community or our province," said Fernie Mayor Randal Macnair. "We're not saying no to coal-bed methane. We're saying, 'Figure it out and do it right."'

The province's minister of energy and mines, Richard Neufeld, said regulators are proceeding cautiously. Misinformation has contributed to concern in Fernie, Neufeld said.

"People took the worst-case scenarios that took place in the United States when they started developing coal-bed methane" about 20 years ago, he said. "We are learning from those mistakes so we don't make them again."

Fernie likes to study things, said Martin Brock, a candy store owner who moved here to escape the congestion in Vancouver.

He said he is not firmly opposed to coal-bed methane development, but wants to make sure it doesn't harm the area environment or water quality.

"One of the reasons I love Fernie so much is the water," Brock said. "It would be a tragedy to see anything happen to our water, here or going south."

A 1909 U.S.-Canada treaty prohibits either country from polluting water in a way that affects the other.

In Montana, even pro-industry Gov. Judy Martz is concerned about potential industrial activity in British Columbia.

"The Flathead River Basin in the United States has received more protection for its natural amenities than any other area in the continental United States," Martz wrote Premier Gordon Campbell in May.

She joined the Montana-based Flathead Basin Commission in requesting that a binational organization, working to prevent and resolve disputes under the 1909 treaty, study the cumulative effects of coal-bed methane extraction and the mine that was subsequently canceled.

"The mine was the first and most imminent threat," said Barrett Kaiser, a spokesman for Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont. "Now we'll start working on a common-sense solution to coal-bed methane."

In Montana, officials worry coal-bed methane projects in British Columbia may harm one of the state's most popular places, the scenic Flathead Valley. It is the home base of river guide Bob Jordan, who takes clients on raft trips down the North Fork of the Flathead.

"They come to fish and leave with a sense of undisturbed land," Jordan said. "The image they come away with is that this is as wild a country as they've ever seen in the United States."

The Flathead region that sprawls across the U.S-Canada border supports interior North America's highest density of grizzly bears, and includes about 100,000 Canadian acres identified for possible expansion of Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park.

The government of British Columbia describes the oil and gas sector as "one of the stars of the provincial economy," touts a "streamlined regulatory environment" to encourage growth and has taken measures to stimulate development of coal-bed methane.

The Fernie council's Thomas finds the standards for environmental protection in British Columbia hopelessly low, saying even requirements Fernie imposed on its planned Greg Norman golf course are more rigorous.

"The way it works here is that the resource company sets the agenda," Thomas said.

He welcomes Montana's interest partly because he finds environmental regulations stronger south of the border, and believes that may influence the outcome of the debate here.

"It would be unfair for me to make any comparison," Neufeld responded. "We've had an oil and gas industry in the province for 50 years. We have stringent rules, and we are proud of our environmental record."

Some senior representatives of the provincial government will travel to Montana and discuss concerns about coal-bed methane work, Neufeld said.

Issues include possible effects on the habitats of imperiled bull trout, grizzly bears and other species if water is harmed, riverside environments altered and new roads for industrial access crisscross the land.

Meanwhile, test wells operate in the Fernie area, but Neufeld's staff said the provincial government has sold no rights to coal-bed methane in southeastern British Columbia. Unlike neighboring Alberta, the province has no commercial production.

Should the industry develop, a framework to regulate it is in place, and it includes water protection, said Shawn Robins, a spokesman for Neufeld. Provincial and local officials have been asked for comment, to determine which caveats should be attached to licenses, he added.

Fernie officials worry that streamlining, coupled with the province's need for revenue to help fund public services and the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver, will help the coal-bed methane industry take off prematurely.

"They want the (royalty) cash and they want it bad," Thomas said.

Neufeld said the need to fund future services is obvious, but added the provincial budget is balanced and money for the Olympics will come from many levels, not just the province.

In environmental oversight, "we don't cut corners," he said. "We brag about a streamlined regulatory system. We streamlined it to make it work better for both parties."
Nemont
 
Sure Bambi, it's Oscar's bandwidth. ;) I heisted them from one of those websites and just resized them for posting because they were huge.

Tom, how much do you think it would cost to build a facility to treat the water, truck all the water to the facility, treat the water, and then take the water to where it could be used?

Comparing Texas wildlife and Montana wildlife is like comparing dogshit and peaches. ;)

Oak
 
Comparing Texas wildlife and Montana wildlife is like comparing dogshit and peaches
hump.gif
:D

That is funny.

Nemont
 
Comparing Texas wildlife and Montana wildlife is like comparing dogshit and peaches.
:rolleyes:

Way to beat me to the punch. I was getting ready to dispute, but your statement is summary enough.
 
Tom,

Drilling for CBM and drilling for oil are not the same thing. Neither is drilling for natural gas.

CBM production REQUIRES the water to be pumped out in order to free the gas. It is not feasible to treat the volume of water that needs to be pumped out of these wells.

Mule deer and pronghorn antelope, not to mention all the non game species, are not as adaptable as Whitetails. I know you have some Muleys, some elk and some antelope but Whitetails are Texas is famous for.

Much of it is public land, how much public land is there in Texas? If this were all privated, deed land the land owners would either not allows this type of activity or demand fair compensation for the use of this land.


Public Lands in Texas
lnd_pub_parks.GIF


Total Acres of National Parks in Texas- 1,232,288
NATIONAL PARKS IN TEXAS


Alibates Flint Quarries National Monument, Fritch, Texas
1.371

Amistad National Recreation Area
58,500

Big Bend National Park
801,163

Big Thicket National Preserve
96,678

Chamizal National Memorial, El Paso
55

Fort Davis National Historic Site
460

Guadalupe Mountains National Park
86,416

Lake Meredith National Recreation Area, Amarillo
44,978

San Antonio Missions
819

LBJ National Historic Park
1,157

Padre Island National Seashore
130,434

Palo Alto Battlefield Historic Site
357

Rio Grande Wild & Scenic River (segment)
9,600 acres
191.2 miles

It is a different dynamic up here vs. Texas.

Nemont
 
Doesn't Texas have both, we've got 4 million deer and lots of oil and gas.
Good point, Wyoming should be swimming in deer before long (pun intended).
I'd say the way you drill wells up there is dog shit, too.
Last time I checked, I wasn't drilling the holes, but I can give the address. They are based in Houston, so you shouldn't have much problem finding them. ;)


From NeMont
Mule deer and pronghorn antelope, not to mention all the non game species, are not as adaptable as Whitetails. I know you have some Muleys, some elk and some antelope but Whitetails are it is famous for.
On another note, what are the temps and snow cover like for your 4 million deer during the middle of February.
 
Texas kept its land, didn't have a lot of federal land, in order to pay for the war it fought with Mexico to become an independent republic, before it became a state. A lot of the public land it kept mineral rights to pays for costs of higher education still today. Its called the Permanent University Fund (PUF). Its worth about 3.5 billion and the interest is used each year. That's one big thing our public land is still used for. The mineral rights are not shown on that graph with the green spots and that's where most of the PUF funds come from, mineral rights. I've read if the state kept it all, everyone here today would still be getting a free college education. Apparently they sold a lot off, or paid it off for the war depts. and other things, since then, before they made the PUF.

Your state took a different path, at least our state benefits from gas and oil, apparently you think your state does not. One of the web page showed some private ranchers up there working with well drillers.

You need some laws up there to make those Houston well diggers do it right, if its undefined pollution going on. I'm sure they're trying to follow the law. I guess the trouble is, its federal land, you don't have complete control of it, like you do your own land. Your state controls the wildlife, the feds. control the rest is that it? Well, you got it then. If that dirty water flows to your land, can't you control that?

Here's some slides that show where CBM is, a lot is in Texas, it appears.
http://www.calvinresources.com/Presentations/SRI%20Presentation_files/frame.htm

Not much in the Rockies, lots in other states, including here.

Everything is different,i.e. winter snow cover, so nothing applies, like that's really true. August is our stress period, not February as much, the heat of the summer, nothing grows, the sun burns it up, our lawns turn brown if there is a drought.

Its pretty disgusting, you say they're dumping polluted water, but its not defined as polluted, its running everywhere, and you can't control it. I hope it gets fixed.

Those slides show the Powder River Basin has been in operation for a lot of years already, since the early 90s, it looks like.
 
Tom,

The other thing you are forgetting is that much of Montana and Wyoming were purchased in the Louisana purchase. We didn't get to decide about the public lands like Texas did. Texas was a Repbulic prior to being a state.

Most of the rules and laws governing the use and resource extraction are Federal rules and laws. The states don't always have a lot of say in how these lands are used.

Also does the public have the right to hunt and recreate on the lands that were sold to endow the PUF? You cannot use the mineral right to raise deer and antelope nor does owning the mineral rights mean anything if the land is owned by someone else. YOU and ME, the public, can't hunt or access the lands Texas has sold off.

Private ranchers have every right to work with CBM drillers as it is their land. If they choose to develop it so be it. The problem is what is happening to public lands and public waterways.

I am not anti natural gas development. Just North and West of me there is a huge gas field that has been developed, it does not look anything like a CBM gas field development looks like.

Nemont
 
The state here leases most of the hunting lands and grazing rights, and then uses the money for the public fund. They lease out the mineral rights for developement and keep money from that for the public funds. That's how I understand it, the leases are publically available, but there maybe long term contracts, so its not a draw to administer every year. This university I work at used to have employeees hunt some land they have, but the faculty and staff fought about it so much, they stopped doing it, as I understand it. Now the guy that lives on it and takes care of it, is the one who hunts it. Its way easier for me to hunt somewhere else, than try to go through the red tape to reactivate that. Plus, if I did, sharing it would become an issue again. The people who told me about it, really thought is was pretty hopeless, so I didn't follow up. Most hunters here think public land hunting is a waste of effort, there's so much better hunting elsewhere, that's the way it developed here. Some will go to Colorado, but not many to other places. Some like some public hunts. Most think its not worth it, as you may run into someone else at any moment, chasing your game away. I have liked some here, but the last two years I bought the public map booklets and never went to one. I got 5 deer and 5 hogs and 4 javelina and 3 blackbucks and some birds at other places I've hunted during that time and I had a lot less hassle with unpredictable interactions with other hunters on public land.

I guess the Wy/Mont. state and local people have to get the bad effects stopped, if the bad stuff flows downstream from the federally controlled area and on the private areas under state and local jurisdictions.

That might be easier than changing federal laws and rules. If the feds. pollute and kill the city stream/river fish, then you get the feds. to fix it. The feds. are big guys, so I see the problem, a bit.
 
Must be getting built up inside is it Buzz?
No one to hammer on, no one calling names, and a lot of very good info flowing....

What I said might not have been any thing that would have taken a ton of energy to think up, does that make it less valuable of a statement?

This is the truth of the matter in a very simple form....
 
Here's a peachy keen water treatment system for CBM water that is economical, it says.

http://waterquality.montana.edu/docs/methane/cbm-wts.shtml

With that, you could put that water to good use!

Some seed and the water would probably grow so much elk/mule deer/ and antelope feed, you might come somewhere near the 3.08 billion per year in gas generated from these CBM wells after a few centuries.
 
Tom,

Thats a good link, but theres a couple things I couldnt find, one being the cost of treating the water.

Second, who is going to pay for the water treatment?

Third, its a pilot program, meaning it will probably be many years before any decent amount of water can be treated.

A couple other issues not discussed either. Like the effects on plant life from lowering the water table, stream recharge from a net loss of water (again a water table issue).

Further, theres a huge difference between water being treated to the point of being "useable" to agriculture and being able to discharge that water into streams with fish, macroinvertabrates, etc. Many streams and small rivers in the Powder River Basin and other areas of CBM development have low CFS flows. Increasing flows just a few CFS can severely impact stream bank structure, bank vegetation, sinuosity, pool-riffle ratios, sedimentation, cutting, water velocity etc. etc. etc.

The issue is not limited to how CBM water effects deer, elk, and antelope, its much more complicated than that.

I can assure you of this, in regard to deer, elk, and antelope...the roads alone will negate any possible good that could be gained from treated water. Thats a fact, and I talked with a Wyoming Game and Fish Biologist this last Saturday about CBM development. He said the same thing, the roads are going to do the most damage to elk and mule deer...antelope not as much. He also said CBM development is the number one area of concern for large portions of WY, MT, and CO, theres lots of biologists who are worked up over CBM.

Its intuitively obvious that creating thousands of miles of roads through wildlife habitat, and dumping large volumes of water onto the surface of arid country, and lowering water tables...is going to impact the land. If you dont think so, you're denying logic, science, and facts.
 
http://wrri.nmsu.edu/conf/forum/CBM.pdf

There's a New Mexico Sandia labs with 10 industry sponsors project on CBM water treatment.

http://www.gwpc.org/Meetings/PW2002/Papers/Brian_Hodgson_PWC2002.pdf is a review on CBM water treatment methods out of Marathon Oil.

http://www.perf.org/index.php?act=meeting_2002-02_minutes_upstream has a project to find the best CBM water treatment options out of the
Petroleum Environmental Research Forum

http://www.wyomingoutdoorcouncil.org/news/newsletter/docs/2001a/h2o.php is a Wyoming and Montana group that is working for improvements in CBM wells and water uses.

For example, they now test for 30 polutants where two years ago, it says, they tested for 4.

I think this thread is like the boy who cried wolf to many times. There's no problem that is not been worked out or has a way to work it out on this CBM, it what it appears to me now.
 
Tom, really?

How about lets look at the impacts of just the roads...show me how they arent effecting mule deer. Then we can move on to the other species and other issues...you know like the fact that billions of gallons of untreated water are currently being discharged.
 
The reading I did on it, suggests the successful water treatment requires community and company interaction. That last link gives some local community groups working to that end and it appears very successful. I'd ask them what to do about the billions of gallons if it were a concern to me.

I think I understand your problem better. Its federal land and you just want it for mule deer for the state. The feds probably think you should thank your lucky stars for any mule deer off the federal land given to the state. Mule deer don't supply 3.08 billion dollars more of gas per year for meeting US consumption. Maybe a little federal taxes come from the mule deer hunters spending money, but I'm sure the CBM people are contributing federal taxes too.

Find out how to make it work from those people who are making it work in those links.
 

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