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Cecil the Lion

I don't believe in naming wild animals and don't feel sympathy towards any animal that will kill and eat a human which lions do. I believe they should be allowed to exist in numbers that support their species but don't have any problem thinning the herd.

I'm not going to read the whole article because I can tell immediately what the agenda is and don't buy what they are selling. If there is some issue of ethics a reputable source will come forward with that info.
 
How is baiting in Africa any different than baiting here and in Canada other than most of it seems to be game meat instead of jelly doughnuts and junk food in barrels. I not agreeing with good or bad here but to me as far as the "dragging of the carcass" it's not different than any legal baiting method on this side of the pond. I am very intrigued by the different animals over there but more and more find myself less interested in the "hunting" of them. There does seem to be some trend at least of doing more spot and stalk archery hunting
 
I've spent quite a bit of time in Zimbabwe, based in Vic Falls. I worked as a river guide on the Zambezi through the Batoka Gorge. The company I worked for also ran hunting operations.Several of my very close colleagues were either licensed professional hunters or apprentices. They worked the river during the off season.

I believe I got a pretty good first hand look at the broader professional hunting scene during my time there. Based on that experience, I would say don't jump to conclusions about African hunting unless you have significant experience with it. Just like in North America, there are all types of different operations, hunts and of course hunters. It is diverse.

Imagine if some one formed their opinion about hunting in North America based on high fence operations in Texas, or based on watching all the phony, hunting programs on the Outdoor channel. Is that how you would want to be represented as an American hunter? I sure wouldn't. Trust me there are plenty of legitimate, challenging, sporting and ethical hunting operations in Zimbabwe.

One thing that impressed me most about outfitting there, was how rigorous the process was to become a licensed professional hunter. Not only do they have to complete a very lengthy apprenticeship, but they also had to take fairly rigorous oral and written examines. Not everyone passes. Professional hunters there are actually highly skilled naturalist. Every one of them I ever met was deeply committed to conservation of game species and wild lands. In my view, they were held to a much higher standard than what we hold outfitters (or hunters for that matter) to in North America.

That being said, I don't think it is necessarily my place to apply my own cultural norms and values to what can and can't be hunted in Zimbabwe or in the rest of Africa. Its a local decision. But, bear in mind, if it weren't for legal rhino hunting in South Africa, rhino would most definitely already be extinct. There is fairly strong evidence to suggest that the ban on ivory has also lead to increased demand for black market ivory and has increased poaching. Hunters have a critically important role to play in Africa in terms of conservation, just as they do here in North America.

I've read a few of the news accounts, and they all seem pretty obviously biased. It reminds me of tte reactions of the animal rights nut cases when wolves that wander out of Yellowstone get killed. They exaggerate, spin the story as if it were some type of illegal act of poaching, trying to malign all hunters in general. At the end of the day, the people that scream loudest about these incidents are really opposed to all forms of hunting. It is very important not to lose that perspective.
 
What a anti hunting load of crap. Next animal I want to kill will be named Cecil, only because I've already killed Bambi and Fluffy.

Good to see this dentist has a
well-documented fondness for shooting wild animals around the globe.
Click to expand...

Would like to see and hear more about the
Other images show him posing with elk, and even with a huge endangered sheep – the Nevada Bighorn.
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Media...
 
I mostly agree with Greenhorn on this.

An animal wandered outside the park and got shot. Maybe we should shut down the units surrounding Yellowstone since those animals migrate from the park?
 
Joe Rogan had Corey Knowlton on his podcast and discussed a very similar issue. Knowlton's auctioned hunt of a Black Rhino. While I found him kind of whiney on uncharted head several great points about management of game during the discussion as well as his reaction to internet vigilantes. All in all it was a good podcast.
 
I'm waiting for more clarity to the story, but all I know is what has been reported. The Hunter has already made a statement, but didn't address the claim that they drug the carcass behind the vehicle. I'd like to hear his take on that. If he simply shot it while it was over a dead animal then I'm fine with it. My issue is if they in fact lured it out of the park by having it follow a dead animal being dragged behind the vehicle. I hope this guy comes out soon and makes a statement abou what happened during the hunt.


glass eye said:
Knowing how slanted and biased the media is, I'm going to give both the hunter and outfitter the benefit of the doubt.
Baiting is legal and perhaps the " dragging a carcass from the park to the private property is a gross exaggeration of a carcass hanging from a tree.
I looked a numerous photos and videos of the lion and it's nearly impossible to see a collar.
It has already been established that Cecil had been dethroned and so it's quite possible he left the park on his own.
Don't believe everything you read. It's possible he's guilty on all points, then again.......
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I think as with most media stories now (especially on touchy subjects), things are blown way out of proportion before all the facts are laid out. It's just to get 'clicks' and publicity. Unfortunately, in this case is gives hunters a bad name, whether he's innocent or not.

If the guy did something illegal, he earned this. If that's the case some of the blame likely lies with the guide as well. But if the lion wondered off the refuge to his bait site, I don't see how that's on him.

Now if there was a collar and collared lions aren't supposed to be hunted, maybe the collar should be a little more visible? If it was visible and the guy shot anyway, again it's on him.

IMO, the media is the one to blame. They don't have all the facts and are blowing things out of proportion for publicity.
 
I agree the media is biased and you don't really know what to believe, but the fact that Zimbabwe officials stated that the lion was killed illegally and two people were arrested before the western media started reporting on this seems to show that things weren't really above board.
 
No 50K up front to the Zim 'officials'? Not smart.


...tongue in cheek. The dude and his PH sound bigtime mitigated but I, like most here I assume, don't trust man bites dog knee jerk lynching.
 
What gets under my skin is how everyone has reacted to Cecil the Lion. The majority of the public wants to persecute Dr. Palmer without understanding the entire situation. We need to understand that the media is less than truthful in their reports. A good mentor of mine always told me "To find the truth about something, you need to understand both sides and somewhere in between you will find the truth".
What is everyone mad at? Are we mad that he shot a lion? If so, there are many people that pay large amounts of money to shoot a lion, rhino or other large specie animal throughout the world every day. Are we mad that he shot Cecil the Lion? A lion is lion, regardless of the name we put on the lion, it is still a lion. Are we mad that his guide baited it off the reservation? I know many hunters that bait to get a shot at wildlife. My point is before passing judgement, maybe we should all understand what we are so mad at Dr. Palmer about.
Fault is always a two way street. Look at this way, you want to buy a car and you stop at one of those "No Name Dealer" shops off the side of a highway. You trust the dealer, when he tells you that there is nothing wrong with the car and that the car has a free title. You then have to trust that the dealer is legit. So it turns out that the car is stolen after you buy it from the dealer (This has happened!). Who is at fault, you or the dealer? Both?
Now, I am not saying that this guys is not at fault, but people need to completely understand the situation before trying to ruin this guy’s life. Just think if everyone had a camera on them and as soon as you did something that the public didn't agree with, we all started to protest and get you fired from your job. It is so easy to jump to conclusion and pass judgement on someone.
I’ll leave you with this. Back in my home town, there were 3 teenagers (16 year old) that were caught poaching dear with spot lights in the middle of the night. In MN, winter can get rough, and most deer herd up after the rut. These teenagers, were going out at night with high powered riffles and just shooting herded deer randomly and leaving them lay. I want to say that they shot close to 20 deer. Now, this never made the news or social media but I can tell you, I was more disturbed about this action than I am about this whole lion thing. These teenagers had no desire to eat these deer, they just thought it was fun to shoot them and leave them lay. They were caught and were fined and lost their hunting right for 5 years. None of them received death threats or had people show up protesting them. We expect that the law did what was needed to these individuals and I expect that the law will do the same with Dr. Palmer.
 
Ranger001 said:
Now, this never made the news or social media but I can tell you, I was more disturbed about this action than I am about this whole lion thing.
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I was just thinking last night, if poachers in the US were reported by the media the way even legal African hunts are and then bashed on social media, I wonder if poaching would be a little less common in the US.
 
If he was lion 14578, and not Cecil, it may not be as big of a deal. That said with the facts presented it looks a little sketchy. However, the facts we haven't heard are likely to swing the pendulum the other way.

Having never hunted Africa, I don't feel comfortable judging techniques such as baiting. I do however beleive it was most likely legal but in poor taste if it was planned for this lion. Any idiot should know there would be fallout from this one.
 
I dont care if people kill lions or not. Im not a fan of canned hunts. If the hunt was legal well than. If not give him the book.
 
LopeHunter said:
The lion left the safety of the park. The country says there was not a valid lion permit for where the lion was shot, though.
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The guides admitted to baiting the lion to go outside the park. These guys are scumbags. The dentist is a convicted felon for a prior poaching charge. Scum
 
If Cecil was lion 3333, he was still lured from a secure area to an area he could be legally killed. That is pure SLEAZE.

I also thought of bear baiting in the USA. The bear is not lured from a secure area.

The outfitters are guilty. The hunter is not if he did not know. If he knew of the illegal plan to lure the lion, he should go to jail. Kind of hard to prove. I would not trust the sleazy outfitters evidence!

My opinion only.
 
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