Can a good Muslim be a good American

[Moosie]

but when their beliefs are so wacked then they shouldn't be too surprised when other people don't want them around.

You sound like you're describing what America was founded on.....

Boston tea party... Wacked or not ?
The constitution itself....

So If people don't believe what you do and are radical they should leave ? A peta Member that is in the Army to fight for their country, Yeh or Ney ??!?! Hell on one hand they do exactly what you describe, but on the other hand they are Radical in other ways..... Wacked an Radical Beliefs, HUMMM non American, who'du thunked ?

 

[sreekers]

Danr, and Elkchsr, I agree with both of your last two statements about the Constitution.

Elkchsr, I have to say though, not all paths lead to the same place. I have to disagree with you on that one. That is a whole other conversation, time and place, and will take a lot of talking to get to that point. Look up John 14:6 and it is pretty clear there is one way, and again validity of the Bible argument.

I didn't mean to come across stand offish. If that was the case I am sorry.

Danr, after all of that do you have a pretty good feel for what I believe? Any more questions shoot em my way, I love talking about it.

Have a good night all, I will continue talking tommorow if we are still going.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Moosie, come on...people who are of the religion this topic is about believe in killing any and all people who don't follow their religion. How much more radical can you get?

Besides, PETA isn't all bad...at least they are against game farms. hump

 

[cjcj]

Everyone knows... "All" terrorists are Muslim... but not "all" Muslims are terroristshump

There are minor exception's to the above statement... don't get all picky-ass on me.

 

[ELKCHSR]

sreekers

Look up John 14:6 and it is pretty clear there is one way, and again validity of the Bible argument.

This is absolutely correct according to the bible, but other religions have different holy texts and they don't have this quote in them, their answer “to” heaven is different

The Natives of this country have a completely different concept all together, one based on the same principles as those found in the bible expressed in a different set of rules (the path is different) but the end is still basically the same

All religions have humans ending up in a different state of conscience when we die, but the core beliefs to get there aren’t and it all works on faith that it’s true

 

[JB]

Q. How many Muslim extremists will it take to destroy America?
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A. None, American Liberals can do it all by themselves, thank you.

 

[MattK]

Based on the definition of "Good American" as stated by Danr- Would G.W. Bush be considered a "Good American"?

 

[JB]

Im not sure Matt...but based on my joke, a couple more like you and we're done.

 

[sreekers]

Elkchsr, look up the outrageous claims of Jesus vs. the other claims made by other religions. That is the one outstanding difference. John McCarthur has a couple books out on that subject. "Evidence that Demands a Verdict." Try "The Case For Christ" too by Lee Strobel. Good stuff, and I have read the arguments against as well, they don't hold up. Anyway, after reading those you won't believe that all paths go to the same place. A lot of that comes down to knowing that Satan will do anything and everything to mock God. That said he will make other religions look good, or similar, but not exact, and it turn lead people astray.

 

[MattK]

JB- That's the difference...Your's is a joke. My question isn't.

 

[MattK]

D-Att- I don't know a lot about the bible as I feel a person could spend their whole life studying it and not fully understand it. However, I do know a contradiction when I see one. You state "We dont mean to be judgmental but we will not be tolerate. There are some absolutes that Christ talked about that we hold strong to." If you are not tolerate then you mean to be and are judgmental. Please let me know of these Absolutes...it seems to me that there is only one entity that can pass judgment...and it ain't you.

 

[sreekers]

MattK, I will try to answer a little of that. Look back at what I posted first about killing a child. Is that ever ok.

First of all there is a difference between tolerance and being judgemental. First of all judgemental people by nature go around looking for the things that people are doing wrong and will tell them. That is what Jesus had so many problems with the Pharisees in the Bible about, they had made the law more important loving the "Lord your God with your whole heart." First case in point for salvation through Jesus Christ is the transformation that occurs because of the sins being removed. Sin is something that will continually become less, the closer a person draws to the Lord. The more you get to know a perfect saviour, the more you desire to be like him, which in turn shows that you appreciate the undeserved grace he gave you.

Now there are passages that deal with evidence for salvation. One being the passage in Galatians dealing with the fruit of the spirit. If there is not the evidence of those fruit then I am doubtful of salvation. Next would be whether the person is following the commands of Jesus Christ, first and foremost being the Great Command, Matthew 22:37. To carry out this command you would need to live by what Jesus taught, that life lived out would be evidence for salvation. The next is the Great Commission, Matthew 28:18-20. If a person has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior they will tell others about his grace and salvation. This is merely the evidence for salvation. If there is not evidence to convict, then how can a claim be made?

Now, Jesus commanded me to love my neighbor as myself(found directly after the Great Command), if that is the case should I accept his lifestyle that is contradictory to the Scriptures, no. What it means is that I am to treat that person with respect, and ultimately Christian love in order to win them over. The Apostle Paul talks about love being the greates of all, in "The Love Chapter," 1 Corinthians 13. If I love and respect someone, they will open to hear what I believe, and likewise. Does it make me intolerant, even though I have proven to them that I love them? Maybe, but the fact of the matter is that I loved them regardless of the sin in their life. I can go into specific situations that I have encountered dealing with those things if more explanation is wanted.

 

[ELKCHSR]

sreekers I'm going to trust your correct in your statement with the exception these individuals (yes, even demon or devil worshipers) are looking for a better here after, even if it means doing what we see as evil deeds to get there

No matter what aspirations people want to achieve in the here after, it's still based on faith and based on the premise they will be moving into a more positive plane upon their death

 

[danr55]

The LIberal Kid strikes again. Does not express any opinion on the topic, one way or the other, but chooses instead to nitt pick the statements of the participants. Matt, if you choose to jump in the discussion, then address the question at hand. Can a good muslim be a good American. Don't run around the edges picking on things that other write then piss about how they wrote them or whether or not they've contradicted themselves.

Stick with the topic. Do you have an opinion about Muslims in America?

 

[MattK]

Danr-Short answer, Yes. Anyone can be a good American. They more importantly can be a good citizen of the United States. It's called following the constitution, adhering to Federal, state and local laws. Further it is taking an active role in government, if only by voting. I also believe being a good citizen is more difficult than being a good American. What makes the United States great is the melting pot effect of people with diversity being able to live in harmony under a different set of laws. It's as important to celebrate the similarities of the people as a nation as it is to celebrate the diversity of the individual cultures with in the US. It's the ability to practice different religions and beliefs as long as they don't contradict the laws. I also think it's great that you can call me the liberal kid. I believe in the constitution...I guess that makes me liberal. I believe in reducing debt and waste in the government...again, sucks being liberal. I believe in welfare reform and individual freedoms. I believe a government is "for the people" and "by the people" not "done to the people". I guess my beliefs are definitely contradictory to the conservative movement of today...Yep, I'm proud to be a liberal.

 

[MattK]

sreekers- I wasn't going to post as I don't really like getting into arguments about religion as I feel it is one of the most personal decisions anyone can ever make. From a philosophical stand point, you can be judmental and still tolerant. From the same stand point, you can not be intolerant and not judgmental. You can disagree with the moral beliefs of a person and the decisions they make and still tolerate their behaviour. Some of my best friends do things I don't think are correct. On the other hand, they are great to go hunting and fishing with and keep great company. If I can not tolerate someone, I have already made judgment on their beliefs. I'm not saying it is wrong. It is what it is. As for your question, Is it ever ok to kill a child...it depends on the circumstance. I probably could never do it but when a 7 year old is shooting at you in a war time scenario...I believe it would be possible to shoot back.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Question Matt...

If what was stated in the first post is true and these individuals live their religion and not on the fence as most Americans, how can they be a good American?

This is exactly what the whole topic is about as the conversation progressed

The first post didn't have any thing to say about melting pots or blending in, it had to do with honest core beliefs of a specific religion

You and others on this board denounce White Supremists, but embrace Muslims

There are far more Muslims in the U.S. than White Supremists

They both have the same core values; they both want to see total destruction of a certain race and/or religion and they both believe any one not believing what they believe should be removed from the face of the Earth

The difference is one mainly believes it in words, the other in horrific true to life actions

 

[danr55]

Matt, You really are confused, aren't you?

 

[sreekers]

Ok, I will ask it like this: "Is it ever ok to kill a defenseless child in cold blood?"(i.e. not in war times, not shooting at you, like a two year old)

 

[sreekers]

MattK, also I would encourage you to read "The New Tolerance." The author escapes me at the moment, when I go into the office I will post it.