Bush Administration VS. Bull trout...
- Thread starter BuzzH
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
cheese,
Have you checked into what MA's the areas you hunt fall into?
Do that and you may find out why, UNDER THE LAW, those areas are not open to resource extraction. Not all NF lands are open to resource extraction, and as a result of the USFS trying to follow the law, not every stick of wood on NF lands will head to a mill. Thats what the law says, if you disagree, well, you have avenues to take to try to over-turn the current MUSYA, NFMA, NEPA, etc.
I'd bet some serious money that the MA designation for your hunting areas are more than likely off limits to logging, I could be wrong, but if its on the Deerlodge or Beaverhead, I bet I'm right.
Oh, and managing Natural Resources on public lands has nothing to do with economics 101, never has and never will. Its about managing for the greatest good for the greatest number for the longest time...
Good luck.
Have you checked into what MA's the areas you hunt fall into?
Do that and you may find out why, UNDER THE LAW, those areas are not open to resource extraction. Not all NF lands are open to resource extraction, and as a result of the USFS trying to follow the law, not every stick of wood on NF lands will head to a mill. Thats what the law says, if you disagree, well, you have avenues to take to try to over-turn the current MUSYA, NFMA, NEPA, etc.
I'd bet some serious money that the MA designation for your hunting areas are more than likely off limits to logging, I could be wrong, but if its on the Deerlodge or Beaverhead, I bet I'm right.
Oh, and managing Natural Resources on public lands has nothing to do with economics 101, never has and never will. Its about managing for the greatest good for the greatest number for the longest time...
Good luck.
I see no difference in what you percieve him doing and you stopping in your tracks to attack me for no reason.
It is time to start back putting things back into perspective,
Some of us are very good at ruining threads when others start it, some others are very good at whining to the overhead when they think they are being picked on by those that would put the playing field on more of an even level.
It is time to start back putting things back into perspective,
Some of us are very good at ruining threads when others start it, some others are very good at whining to the overhead when they think they are being picked on by those that would put the playing field on more of an even level.
Nemont
Well-known member
Elkchsr,
Nothing personal but I cannot follow much of anything you have written on this thread. I don't normally jump on you but I am starting to wonder if all that time alone this past fall has damaged something. Also why are you talking about burning sage and your next "sweat"? The native folks generally don't take kindly to people who are building sweat lodges and doing a "sweat" without proper understanding of the ceremony. Last I checked there are many reservations around Anaconda. Maybe you should quit smoking that stuff. Either that or quit trying to be philosophical because it isn't working.
The bull trout is in trouble and should be protected from further decline in numbers. If that means less logging then so be it.
Nemont
Nothing personal but I cannot follow much of anything you have written on this thread. I don't normally jump on you but I am starting to wonder if all that time alone this past fall has damaged something. Also why are you talking about burning sage and your next "sweat"? The native folks generally don't take kindly to people who are building sweat lodges and doing a "sweat" without proper understanding of the ceremony. Last I checked there are many reservations around Anaconda. Maybe you should quit smoking that stuff. Either that or quit trying to be philosophical because it isn't working.
The bull trout is in trouble and should be protected from further decline in numbers. If that means less logging then so be it.
Nemont
Nemont-Thank you, I was somewhat confused myself. I really didn't know what elkchaser was or is talking about.
BHR- I am not against resource extraction. In fact, I am for resource extraction but only if done correctly. There are areas that are better off with logging. I see a need for drilling, putting up dams, mining etc. I feel that if done correctly all of this can be accomplished and habitat can be brought back to where it should be. In some cases it would probably add habitat.
Here's the problem: Most corporations extract quickly with very little regard to the habitat. It is called maximizing profits. They do not look at the long term while extracting. They don't look at reforestation or reclamation of lands. They don't look at the effects of sedimentation by putting in too many roads. Then they squeal like pigs being poked when a species is threatened and becomes endangered. Then they claim all the environmentalists are out to ruin their company. THEY ruined their own company by not taking environmental factors into account to begin with.
BHR- I am not against resource extraction. In fact, I am for resource extraction but only if done correctly. There are areas that are better off with logging. I see a need for drilling, putting up dams, mining etc. I feel that if done correctly all of this can be accomplished and habitat can be brought back to where it should be. In some cases it would probably add habitat.
Here's the problem: Most corporations extract quickly with very little regard to the habitat. It is called maximizing profits. They do not look at the long term while extracting. They don't look at reforestation or reclamation of lands. They don't look at the effects of sedimentation by putting in too many roads. Then they squeal like pigs being poked when a species is threatened and becomes endangered. Then they claim all the environmentalists are out to ruin their company. THEY ruined their own company by not taking environmental factors into account to begin with.
OK Nemont
For you I will state it very simply.
Ol' Buzz knows what I am talking about, and I was very serious about what I stated. It wasn't meant for you to make fun of.
I come on here, state things as I see them.
Buzz comes right on and lay's down personal attacks with no provocation.
I haven't been on this area at all for the last many months, when I left, this board was starting to be cleaned up by Del.
I have done things before that most of you know the history.
Ruining threads was the biggest one.
I will say this in plain English so that there are no mistakes.
.
Buzz and gunner had been making personal attacks on those they didn't agree with, so much so that they had even maneged to chase good people with good points away.
Not that I agreed with every thing these people had to say, but they had their own valid points. But because they didn't fit inside of Buzz and gunners perfect little box, they pounded and hounded these people.
So, I took it upon myself to step it up proportionatly to what these individuals had been doing to others-simple concept.
But when I did that, the place became unglued, these same people that think nothing of degrading and demoralizing others really don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot and they get exactly what they dish out.
So they go whining, and a few others that didn't realize what was happening, but thats OK, to the overhead that I am being mean.
So it brought this whole thing to a head and the name calling slowed way down and people got to the buisness at hand, and kept it civil.
Then only after a short amount of time, one of these two just didn't know when to stop and started personal attacks and the other jumped in, not as bad, but none the less. Now keep in mind, I had stopped my stuff for months and if you haven't noticed which I am guessing is so, I have not called any one on this board a name since I was posting the pics and puns, but these guy's now have a vendetta to try and even a score since I showed them that they are nothing but cowards by stating untruths.
So, as you well know, I was going to make sure that the untruths were right in the open, the more an untruth, no matter how far fetched is stated, it starts to become a truth in the back of peoples minds.
I sure hope you are still with me on this, since I am understanding that you just didn't seem to understand the history on this, or you just keet your eyes closed to what is and was going on.
.
"I see no difference in what you percieve him doing and you stopping in your tracks to attack me for no reason.
It is time to start back putting things back into perspective,
Some of us are very good at ruining threads when others start it, some others are very good at whining to the overhead when they think they are being picked on by those that would put the playing field on more of an even level."
.
This is meant as a thinly veiled statement to Buzz, and he understands that he is the one that started it this time, with no provocation on my part. It wasn't meant for you or any one else to jump in on. I was making a point to stay with in the topic as the topic progressed by others. I didn't stray out of it as Buzz did just to start with the jabs again.
Are you following so far?
I have no beef with you and I hadn't realized that you were starting to get one with me. Very unfortunate, but thats on you, not me.
You guy's want this to stay on topic, keep your people in check, I know how to play the game and as I have shown before can hold my own with out having to whine and cry when I am getting whipped as some others on this board do on a regular basis, proof.... ask Oscar or Del....
Would you like any thing else in plain English?
I can state for a fact though, Oscar knows how far one of these things can go, he does it in fun, as I would. If it went unchecked by the whiners this area would most certainly be void of people for the same reason good people have left on accound of Buzz and gunner...
Nemont
Let me know if you need any thing else answered in plain Enlish, or is it that you want to start with crap also,
""Maybe you should quit smoking that stuff""
Nuff said.... Go forth and be happy....
For you I will state it very simply.
Ol' Buzz knows what I am talking about, and I was very serious about what I stated. It wasn't meant for you to make fun of.
I come on here, state things as I see them.
Buzz comes right on and lay's down personal attacks with no provocation.
I haven't been on this area at all for the last many months, when I left, this board was starting to be cleaned up by Del.
I have done things before that most of you know the history.
Ruining threads was the biggest one.
I will say this in plain English so that there are no mistakes.
.
Buzz and gunner had been making personal attacks on those they didn't agree with, so much so that they had even maneged to chase good people with good points away.
Not that I agreed with every thing these people had to say, but they had their own valid points. But because they didn't fit inside of Buzz and gunners perfect little box, they pounded and hounded these people.
So, I took it upon myself to step it up proportionatly to what these individuals had been doing to others-simple concept.
But when I did that, the place became unglued, these same people that think nothing of degrading and demoralizing others really don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot and they get exactly what they dish out.
So they go whining, and a few others that didn't realize what was happening, but thats OK, to the overhead that I am being mean.
So it brought this whole thing to a head and the name calling slowed way down and people got to the buisness at hand, and kept it civil.
Then only after a short amount of time, one of these two just didn't know when to stop and started personal attacks and the other jumped in, not as bad, but none the less. Now keep in mind, I had stopped my stuff for months and if you haven't noticed which I am guessing is so, I have not called any one on this board a name since I was posting the pics and puns, but these guy's now have a vendetta to try and even a score since I showed them that they are nothing but cowards by stating untruths.
So, as you well know, I was going to make sure that the untruths were right in the open, the more an untruth, no matter how far fetched is stated, it starts to become a truth in the back of peoples minds.
I sure hope you are still with me on this, since I am understanding that you just didn't seem to understand the history on this, or you just keet your eyes closed to what is and was going on.
.
"I see no difference in what you percieve him doing and you stopping in your tracks to attack me for no reason.
It is time to start back putting things back into perspective,
Some of us are very good at ruining threads when others start it, some others are very good at whining to the overhead when they think they are being picked on by those that would put the playing field on more of an even level."
.
This is meant as a thinly veiled statement to Buzz, and he understands that he is the one that started it this time, with no provocation on my part. It wasn't meant for you or any one else to jump in on. I was making a point to stay with in the topic as the topic progressed by others. I didn't stray out of it as Buzz did just to start with the jabs again.
Are you following so far?
I have no beef with you and I hadn't realized that you were starting to get one with me. Very unfortunate, but thats on you, not me.
You guy's want this to stay on topic, keep your people in check, I know how to play the game and as I have shown before can hold my own with out having to whine and cry when I am getting whipped as some others on this board do on a regular basis, proof.... ask Oscar or Del....
Would you like any thing else in plain English?
I can state for a fact though, Oscar knows how far one of these things can go, he does it in fun, as I would. If it went unchecked by the whiners this area would most certainly be void of people for the same reason good people have left on accound of Buzz and gunner...
Nemont
Let me know if you need any thing else answered in plain Enlish, or is it that you want to start with crap also,
""Maybe you should quit smoking that stuff""
Nuff said.... Go forth and be happy....
If done properly I agree and I think is the point MattK is making. Proper management may call for an end to the extraction in some places and more in others. IMO, politics just get in the way too much.
Elkchsr- I can gripe about how a resource is extracted and still use the resource. It's the how that can be the stickler with me not that it is being used. That's some of the good part of our public lands management, we get to at least be heard.
PS- BHR, FYI I'm off the clock.
Nemont
Well-known member
Elkchsr,
I do not have any kind of "beef" with you. I was attempting to understand what you were writing and none of it made any sense. Even your statement above doesn't compute to well. Okay I won't make any cracks about you smoking something but you are not stating things in plain english it is more like rambling on without getting to a point. Maybe it is just me but for the life of me I have not a clue what you are talking about and what it has to do with bull trout. Maybe Buzz can enlighten me.
Nemont
I do not have any kind of "beef" with you. I was attempting to understand what you were writing and none of it made any sense. Even your statement above doesn't compute to well. Okay I won't make any cracks about you smoking something but you are not stating things in plain english it is more like rambling on without getting to a point. Maybe it is just me but for the life of me I have not a clue what you are talking about and what it has to do with bull trout. Maybe Buzz can enlighten me.
Nemont
BuzzH
Well-known member
Nemont,
I dont have a clue what the cheese is talking about, I really dont.
I mean look at his first post in this thread...its "on topic" how? I dont get it, but whatever.
I think to refute the article any reasonable person would try to dig up some actual data that shows bull trout are not endangered or threatened or that there are measures in place to at least ensure they wont be further threatened. The fact is though, that the bull trout issue is not being taken that seriously by the current administration and as tax payers we are all going to pay big in the end.
I think its good to discuss the issue at hand, but what does this statement by the cheese have to do with bull trout and their lack of protection by the current administration????
Cheese said, "OH Boy!!! OH Boy!!!
It's back to the extraction industries being the big bad guy's of the world.
I will wade back into this again, with any one that is against the extraction industry.
I will bring it up again, why is it that every one of us use all of the benefits of the extraction industies but there are a few, and fortunately it is getting to be less all of the time, that still have to beat the drums against these industries.
I think I remember a passage about being the first to cast a stone, I will say it again, until I see you guy's giving up your modern conviniences and going back to 100% of what you preach, then I will hold stock in what you say, other wise, it really holds no weight and means nothing.
But I guess it is hard to teach old dogs new tricks and we are all creatures of habit, so these old drums are just bad habits that they can't break....
I didnt see anything in the article that bashed extraction, I didnt see anything about shutting down logging, I didnt see anything that said we should all quit using renewable resources like timber?
I think the solution is simply to stay on the topic, if cheese wants to carry on about the bashing of the resource extraction industries, start a thread to address those issues...
You dont have to give up your utilization of renewable resources just because you think bull trout need some assistance...I dont see the correlation?
I dont have a clue what the cheese is talking about, I really dont.
I mean look at his first post in this thread...its "on topic" how? I dont get it, but whatever.
I think to refute the article any reasonable person would try to dig up some actual data that shows bull trout are not endangered or threatened or that there are measures in place to at least ensure they wont be further threatened. The fact is though, that the bull trout issue is not being taken that seriously by the current administration and as tax payers we are all going to pay big in the end.
I think its good to discuss the issue at hand, but what does this statement by the cheese have to do with bull trout and their lack of protection by the current administration????
Cheese said, "OH Boy!!! OH Boy!!!
It's back to the extraction industries being the big bad guy's of the world.
I will wade back into this again, with any one that is against the extraction industry.
I will bring it up again, why is it that every one of us use all of the benefits of the extraction industies but there are a few, and fortunately it is getting to be less all of the time, that still have to beat the drums against these industries.
I think I remember a passage about being the first to cast a stone, I will say it again, until I see you guy's giving up your modern conviniences and going back to 100% of what you preach, then I will hold stock in what you say, other wise, it really holds no weight and means nothing.
But I guess it is hard to teach old dogs new tricks and we are all creatures of habit, so these old drums are just bad habits that they can't break....
I didnt see anything in the article that bashed extraction, I didnt see anything about shutting down logging, I didnt see anything that said we should all quit using renewable resources like timber?
I think the solution is simply to stay on the topic, if cheese wants to carry on about the bashing of the resource extraction industries, start a thread to address those issues...
You dont have to give up your utilization of renewable resources just because you think bull trout need some assistance...I dont see the correlation?
JoseCuervo
New member
Hey Cheese,
Why are you dragging me into your rambling diatribes? I would correct you, but I don't have any idea what you wrote. Your posts in this thread might have been the most henious attacks on the English Language ever committed.
In the spirit of Constructive Criticism, might I suggest a remedial English class at a local High School? Perhaps one that could introduce topics such as Thought Organziation and Paragraph Construction?
Just my observation here, but you have added absolutely nothing to this thread. The discussion here is if the Anti-Fishing and Anti-Hunting Dubya Administration is going to end fishing in the West. And it appears that any chance of us ever fishing for Bull Trout will be removed by Bush.
Sorry that you were unable to see what the topic of the thread was. One suggestion is that you might look at the "Subject" line of a thread, and you would then be able to see what is being discussed. If you were not to have a clue on the Subject, then you should probably read the first post, and see if you can learn anything. There is absolutely no requirement that you ACTUALLY post anything, and if you don't have a clue, it is a good idea to NOT post on the thread. Remember, we have two eyes, but only one keyboard....
Nemont,
I read thru Cheese's posts, and I can't actually find him referring to Bull Trout, so I think you are not alone in not finding any purpose or information in his posts.
Why are you dragging me into your rambling diatribes? I would correct you, but I don't have any idea what you wrote. Your posts in this thread might have been the most henious attacks on the English Language ever committed.
In the spirit of Constructive Criticism, might I suggest a remedial English class at a local High School? Perhaps one that could introduce topics such as Thought Organziation and Paragraph Construction?
Just my observation here, but you have added absolutely nothing to this thread. The discussion here is if the Anti-Fishing and Anti-Hunting Dubya Administration is going to end fishing in the West. And it appears that any chance of us ever fishing for Bull Trout will be removed by Bush.
Sorry that you were unable to see what the topic of the thread was. One suggestion is that you might look at the "Subject" line of a thread, and you would then be able to see what is being discussed. If you were not to have a clue on the Subject, then you should probably read the first post, and see if you can learn anything. There is absolutely no requirement that you ACTUALLY post anything, and if you don't have a clue, it is a good idea to NOT post on the thread. Remember, we have two eyes, but only one keyboard....
Nemont,
I read thru Cheese's posts, and I can't actually find him referring to Bull Trout, so I think you are not alone in not finding any purpose or information in his posts.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Pointer,
Here are a few quotes from Matt on other threads. I'm just trying to pin him down to what he really thinks.
"I feel there has been enough exposure by the timber industry, mining, and gas and oil."
"I am just not willing to be giving up public lands for gas and oil exploration."
Nemont,
Buzz and the groups he is promoting are not interested in LESS logging. They are interested in NO logging. That is the problem. Go to the AWR web site and check out all the kook member groups of this outfit. Preditor conservation alliance, buffalo field dope smokers, and so on. Buzz says he is for resource extraction, but I have yet to see one example he favors. He says he's for wolf delisting and then promotes organizations that oppose it. He says he works for the Forest Service then spends the whole day playing on the computer. Something just doesn't add up.
Here are a few quotes from Matt on other threads. I'm just trying to pin him down to what he really thinks.
"I feel there has been enough exposure by the timber industry, mining, and gas and oil."
"I am just not willing to be giving up public lands for gas and oil exploration."
Nemont,
Buzz and the groups he is promoting are not interested in LESS logging. They are interested in NO logging. That is the problem. Go to the AWR web site and check out all the kook member groups of this outfit. Preditor conservation alliance, buffalo field dope smokers, and so on. Buzz says he is for resource extraction, but I have yet to see one example he favors. He says he's for wolf delisting and then promotes organizations that oppose it. He says he works for the Forest Service then spends the whole day playing on the computer. Something just doesn't add up.
BHR- Ok, I'm with you. I guess we just have different interpretations on what Matt has posted. That's the hard part IMO with the internet, as too often people aren't as clear as they could be. I know I've done this while typing in a hurry during my lunch break...
I suppose I should read all of what Buzz and gunner posted, but with out even looking, it is the same old tired tirade that is only meant to offend and degrade.
.
To make a point and keep it short.
Buzz and gunner are jerks to any one that don't fit inside of their tight little ideals of how the world works.
.
I don't know how I can be more simple, or to the point.
.
gunner posted once that he will not let his daughter come into this area, I posted back that it was because he was ashamed of how he acts in here and doesn't want to show her that he can be such a low life. I never got an answer, so that was answer enough.
.
Here is another simple statement.
.
This way none of you have to worry about trying to read between the lines.
.
Keep up the attacks and I will start to ruin every thread until it stops.
.
Simple enough?
---------------------------------------
Drop the attacks and I will cease....
----------------------------------------
Simple enough?
.
Talk to your people Nemont !! (Those that actually want to keep this place in the gutter, and figure where you guys all want to keep the SI section).
.
I can keep it any where you guy's all want to have it.
Good information, good debate.
Bad infighting, learn nothing.
.
I prefer myself to stay in the first one, we all get so much more out of it.
But this is the internet and I will help it go either way.
.
Tyler is the only one down here that I have actually met, so the rest is just faceless writings.
.
Actually it has been stated where every one would like to keep it, but Buzz and gunner just can't seem to control themselves.
I would call that being two faced.
They say one thing do another and then cry to Oscar and Del when they are getting back what they dish out.
.
I am trying to break this up into small areas so you fellows don't get lost in what is being said.
.
If I was given a choice on how people behave here, it would be as possitive as possible. But as stated above, I will take it to where ever this place is lead.
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Any one still lost and don't understand?
.
I would say just one more thing, this is not written ouf of malus or disdain, I know that is how it will be read by some because that is the only way some people think.
.
To make a point and keep it short.
Buzz and gunner are jerks to any one that don't fit inside of their tight little ideals of how the world works.
.
I don't know how I can be more simple, or to the point.
.
gunner posted once that he will not let his daughter come into this area, I posted back that it was because he was ashamed of how he acts in here and doesn't want to show her that he can be such a low life. I never got an answer, so that was answer enough.
.
Here is another simple statement.
.
This way none of you have to worry about trying to read between the lines.
.
Keep up the attacks and I will start to ruin every thread until it stops.
.
Simple enough?
---------------------------------------
Drop the attacks and I will cease....
----------------------------------------
Simple enough?
.
Talk to your people Nemont !! (Those that actually want to keep this place in the gutter, and figure where you guys all want to keep the SI section).
.
I can keep it any where you guy's all want to have it.
Good information, good debate.
Bad infighting, learn nothing.
.
I prefer myself to stay in the first one, we all get so much more out of it.
But this is the internet and I will help it go either way.
.
Tyler is the only one down here that I have actually met, so the rest is just faceless writings.
.
Actually it has been stated where every one would like to keep it, but Buzz and gunner just can't seem to control themselves.
I would call that being two faced.
They say one thing do another and then cry to Oscar and Del when they are getting back what they dish out.
.
I am trying to break this up into small areas so you fellows don't get lost in what is being said.
.
If I was given a choice on how people behave here, it would be as possitive as possible. But as stated above, I will take it to where ever this place is lead.
.
Any one still lost and don't understand?
.
I would say just one more thing, this is not written ouf of malus or disdain, I know that is how it will be read by some because that is the only way some people think. cjcj
New member
ringer said:
Thats Funny..LMAO.
1P-Tyler
I know you like to take offence at a lot of the comments that I make. I know where you stand on these issues and are more on a common sense approach to the issues.
You are on the issues where good scientists and Ecologists are supposed to be, riding the fence and making more sound desicions based on what you learn.
The comment about the resource use is meant for those on the far left that think that there is no middle ground on these subjects, that there is no way that these resources can be used right.
Buzz some times shows that he is there, then jumps on the wagon with gunner to create distdain and dislike.
As I have told Fred/Nut, these comments I make are not meant for you, they are meant for those that want every thing but don't get it in my back yard. It has to come from some where.
I have never seen you side with those that want zero logging/mining/roads.
It is where I sit, these are all good things, as long as they are done in a sound way.
I know you like to take offence at a lot of the comments that I make. I know where you stand on these issues and are more on a common sense approach to the issues.
You are on the issues where good scientists and Ecologists are supposed to be, riding the fence and making more sound desicions based on what you learn.
The comment about the resource use is meant for those on the far left that think that there is no middle ground on these subjects, that there is no way that these resources can be used right.
Buzz some times shows that he is there, then jumps on the wagon with gunner to create distdain and dislike.
As I have told Fred/Nut, these comments I make are not meant for you, they are meant for those that want every thing but don't get it in my back yard. It has to come from some where.
I have never seen you side with those that want zero logging/mining/roads.
It is where I sit, these are all good things, as long as they are done in a sound way.
1 pointer- I stand soundly on correct management of forests. My point on the other posts have been the same. Historically, companies have demolished areas and then cried because people like myself go against them when they hit public lands. If resource extraction was guaranteed to happen correctly, I would be 100% behind it. This just hasn't and doesn't look like it will happen in the future. I really wish it would. You're statement is completely correct. In some areas, resources should not be taken, in others they should. Good management of public lands is so important and public lands are so important, I just don't like to see people throwing them away for a few extra board feet. It may keep someone in a job an extra week, but my thought on this is simple. If it takes bending rules to keep jobs open, they probably won't last much longer anyways. I believe someone on another post called this Capitalism.
The point of this topic is whether I believe bull trout need protecting. Although Ringer and CJ see it as a big joke, it is considered to be an indicator species. This means to me, it is a very important species and tells us a lot about the way the environment is being treated.... Therefore it is very important.
The point of this topic is whether I believe bull trout need protecting. Although Ringer and CJ see it as a big joke, it is considered to be an indicator species. This means to me, it is a very important species and tells us a lot about the way the environment is being treated.... Therefore it is very important.
cjcj
New member
My 2 cents about S.I. Its hard to change someones Personality and it can come thru with their written statements... that would include all of us... While i think there should be a "line" i don`t know where to draw it ... I think we should avoid attacking a posters family.. wife/kids...but i feel if they dish it out... than send it right back... and if you use some facts while your doing it.. then we still learn even though we are a-holes about it... the thing i love about S.I. is i can cuss......but this is just "my" opinion and i really don`t know where the line is or should be... but its kinda nice to have a place to vent or cut loose.... and i do find some of the "smart ass" stuff "entertaining"...Don`t lettum get to ya Elkchaser.. you seem to be able to hold your own. most of this stuff would never happen face to face anyway.. I.M.O.
BuzzH
Well-known member
BHR,
Can you direct me to the place in this thread that shows my support of the AWR? I think what they are doing is legal, and based on sound reason...shrubs admin. not taking the ESA seriously is not only a violation of the law, but also unethical. They think so too, and thats why the courts have to get involved...apparently either the FOS and AWR dont understand the ESA or Shrubs Admin. doesnt...one or the other. I'm thinking its probably not the AWR as evidenced by the landslide of victories by the various groups winning in the courts...we'll see I guess.
I support the AWR? Hows that? By posting an article that says they're taking shrubs administration to court over interpretation of the written laws of the United States? By agreeing that Shrub should be taking the ESA seriously? That he should be following his legal obligations to the United States? Yep, thats me, guilty as hell.
Thats a right they have (legal system) and one they'll always have. If you dont like it there are countries to live in that dont afford their citizens the right to keep their goverment honest and make them comply with the laws that the United States Citizens want.
Funny how you scream about civil liberties then scoff at the people with the nuts to use them...
Can you direct me to the place in this thread that shows my support of the AWR? I think what they are doing is legal, and based on sound reason...shrubs admin. not taking the ESA seriously is not only a violation of the law, but also unethical. They think so too, and thats why the courts have to get involved...apparently either the FOS and AWR dont understand the ESA or Shrubs Admin. doesnt...one or the other. I'm thinking its probably not the AWR as evidenced by the landslide of victories by the various groups winning in the courts...we'll see I guess.
I support the AWR? Hows that? By posting an article that says they're taking shrubs administration to court over interpretation of the written laws of the United States? By agreeing that Shrub should be taking the ESA seriously? That he should be following his legal obligations to the United States? Yep, thats me, guilty as hell.
Thats a right they have (legal system) and one they'll always have. If you dont like it there are countries to live in that dont afford their citizens the right to keep their goverment honest and make them comply with the laws that the United States Citizens want.
Funny how you scream about civil liberties then scoff at the people with the nuts to use them...
Nemont
Well-known member
Elkchsr,
First: I tried to be nice and point out that what you were writing made no sense to anyone except you. I really could care less what you think about personal attacks here in SI. If you take the stuff posted here seriously and personally then that is your problem. I choose to see it as entertainment and enjoy the razzing and the back and forth. You think Buzz gives two shits about what you post on here? Think he loses any sleep over your ramblings about extractive industries. Or Gunner or me or anyone else for that matter.
Second: Unless you are a moderator or an adminstrator you have NO right to hijack or "ruin" any threads and if you start doing that I will lead the charge to ban you from this site, I could care less if you 100,000 posts you have no more rights here then anyone else. If you can't take it then stay out of the dicussion. You "waded" into this thread by choice and posted some stuff which did not have anything to do with the topic. You openly invited a negative response in your first post.
Third: I have no "people" to talk to. I don't know what you are talking about there but you need to review what it is you think is going on here. Do you think these "people" get together and conspire to attack you. Got news for you I don't know Buzz or MattK. I have met Elkgunner and found out he is a good family man.
The subject is bull trout and habitat. See if you can have a lucid response to that subject if you can't then maybe you should not respond. If you want to continue to be the self appointed thread killer then so be it but I for one am sick of your attitude and your nonsense posts and again if you choose that course of action I will lead the charge to ban you.
Nemont
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