Bulls for Billionaires - MT EQC Meeting today 1:30 PM

[brockel]

Nothing growing at my house. I have two pivots out my back window that I could hit with a rock. Actually I could hit the 6” of snow that’s covering them…not the actual ground. I understand that hay grows in May and June. I’ll be turning on pivots in about 10 days,hopefully.

WTF is your point regarding my comment? I commented that we have damage hunts as an alternative to shoulder seasons. I didn’t say anything about May and June. Hell, if that’s what we are worried about then let’s kill them all year! There’s some prime second crop growing in July/August.

What is your solution to the “problem” of crop damage in May and June?

Starting to green up on the eastern side. My point is damage hunts aren’t the cure all just like shoulder seasons aren’t because by the time we can do them the damage is already done. There is no one fix to the problem. Lowering over objective units to objectives might help or it might not. I wish I had the solution to the problem. I do know the solution to the problem isn’t “phuck em they should let people on to kill elk”. Because some do and they still get ate out of house and home long before the season even starts

 

[wyoelkfan15]

Bingo, Gringo...

Tonight's meeting in Laramie that's exactly what they want. I tried...put up a fight for mule deer bucks.

Was told by the Biologist..."we HAVE to do something"...and 6 bucks per 100 does is all we need.

Pronghorn doing like shit, all buck mule deer older than 2 removed from the landscape, and just for shits and giggles, lets make one of the best LQ areas for elk in the State general.

Welcome to Wyom....I mean Southern Montana.

Had a similar meeting in Cody in February. They told us the same thing, open harvest on deer to suppress the disease. They basically told us anyone who wants a deer tag gets one. My thought is Idaho Game and Fish are trying like hell to keep CWD out of ID and they want every deer that gets close to Yellowstone park to be a dead deer. The recovery we have experienced the last four years due to limited seasons on our general areas is about to be opened back up to "If it's brown, it's down." Sad state of affairs

 

[DFS]

Nothing growing at my house. I have two pivots out my back window that I could hit with a rock. Actually I could hit the 6” of snow that’s covering them…not the actual ground. I understand that hay grows in May and June. I’ll be turning on pivots in about 10 days,hopefully.

WTF is your point regarding my comment? I commented that we have damage hunts as an alternative to shoulder seasons. I didn’t say anything about May and June. Hell, if that’s what we are worried about then let’s kill them all year! There’s some prime second crop growing in July/August.

What is your solution to the “problem” of crop damage in May and June?

He makes a good point although maybe not fixable. The answer is to send those elk back to the mountains. But with population growth and the season structure we will send them right back down to the pivots. Problems you can’t fix. Aerial gunning is my best solution.

 

[DFS]

Less people where the elk need to be is the answer. Anybody signing up for that?

 

[brockel]

Less people where the elk need to be is the answer. Anybody signing up for that?

Wish I could talk my wife into moving. The elk can have my backyard

 

[SwaggyD]

Wish I could talk my wife into moving. The elk can have my backyard

Sounds like harboring..... need a couple bull tags?!

 

[brockel]

Sounds like harboring..... need a couple bull tags?!

Goin to need more than that. Whitetail are still in my hay and some coons just got 4 chickens the other night.

 

[Eric Albus]

@Eric Albus Do you still think the two cow hunters that the Horse Ranch gave access to as part of their 454 agreements is a substantial number?

I never said, or thought 2 cow elk hunters were/are/is enough.

If the landowner agrees to take a bull permit thru 454, they should have to allow a significant number of cow elk hunters. What that number is should be hammered out between owner/biologist, as to bulls permits, that should also be agreed upon by landowner(s), and FWP biologists. With an understanding that we don’t hammer the quality of bulls back to the Stone Age.

 

[Eric Albus]

I agree with this statement but there is an easy fix for traditional MT ranchers. Let people hunt on your property and those pesky elk won't be around long. I know one response will be that the season doesn't last all year. It doesn't, but there is something like a 9 month long season in some places and that is more than enough to keep the elk from always being on the property, they just have to allow some access to their property.

The problem with elk is they disperse when not pressured. So in May/June they are not all camped on the King’s X, they are on the neighbors causing him misery and crop damage.
So we are back to square one, day before hunting season opens elk run back to the safety zone.
Until proper incentive to landowners is provided, we have no elk to manage. 454 is not perfect, but it provides a measure of access to otherwise inaccessible elk.
When someone comes up with a better incentive program let me know. It’ll have to take the landowners considerations as a priority.
1:1 bull permits is not very equitable to the guys feeding and housing herds of elk. However if the owners are willingly accepting that good enough. In order to be eligible for 454 I think the landowner should be given a permit, and be able to designate another 2-3 permits to family and an employee(1), with an agreement of “X” number cows be harvested. Make first 2-3 weeks of season either sex, cows only last 2 weeks. End shoulder hunts. Bring elk to objective/tolerable numbers. If we don’t see cow numbers decrease significantly in 2 years go to 1 week either sex, 4 weeks cow only. If this doesn’t fix it, cow only until numbers are brought to objective.

 

[The Hedgehog]

The problem with elk is they disperse when not pressured. So in May/June they are not all camped on the King’s X, they are on the neighbors causing him misery and crop damage.
So we are back to square one, day before hunting season opens elk run back to the safety zone.
Until proper incentive to landowners is provided, we have no elk to manage. 454 is not perfect, but it provides a measure of access to otherwise inaccessible elk.
When someone comes up with a better incentive program let me know. It’ll have to take the landowners considerations as a priority.
1:1 bull permits is not very equitable to the guys feeding and housing herds of elk. However if the owners are willingly accepting that good enough. In order to be eligible for 454 I think the landowner should be given a permit, and be able to designate another 2-3 permits to family and an employee(1), with an agreement of “X” number cows be harvested. Make first 2-3 weeks of season either sex, cows only last 2 weeks. End shoulder hunts. Bring elk to objective/tolerable numbers. If we don’t see cow numbers decrease significantly in 2 years go to 1 week either sex, 4 weeks cow only. If this doesn’t fix it, cow only until numbers are brought to objective.

Eric - why not cow hunting first - then bull hunting?

 

[Irishman]

Eric - why not cow hunting first - then bull hunting?

Greenhorn, you're asking a question that you know the answer to. Cow elk hunting first might scare the bulls off the property, and make killing that big bull they wanted less predictable.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Greenhorn, you're asking a question that you know the answer to. Cow elk hunting first might scare the bulls off the property, and make killing that big bull they wanted less predictable.

Pretty damn simple to recognize the motivations of these guys, as well as the total bullshit. And it’s 100% obvious where Hank Worsech gets his ridiculous plans.

Aside from lip service - nothing from MOGA has any legitimate concern for the poor ranchers & elk objectives, or the majority of MT hunters or the elk. It’s 100% about giving those big bulls to who they believe best deserve & pays for them. The only MOGA guy that had an opposing testimony at the meetings I saw was Dusty Crary, who likely does some of his work on public land.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I saw was Dusty Crary, who likely does some of his work on public land.

Yep, Dusty Crary is a reputable "old school" outfitter who assists folks in enjoying the Bob Marshall Wilderness. We met his son, then a teenager, in the Bob as he was checking the trail and securing makeshift log bars across the trail to keep the grazing horses from heading home before the trip was over. It was apparent from conversation that Crary is committed to protecting and conserving wilderness and doing things the traditional right way. It brought to mind the other iconic Bob Marshall outfitter, Smoke Elser.

 

[Finnman]

Pretty damn simple to recognize the motivations of these guys, as well as the total bullshit. And it’s 100% obvious where Hank Worsech gets his ridiculous plans.

Aside from lip service - nothing from MOGA has any legitimate concern for the poor ranchers & elk objectives, or the majority of MT hunters or the elk. It’s 100% about giving those big bulls to who they believe best deserve & pays for them. The only MOGA guy that had an opposing testimony at the meetings I saw was Dusty Crary, who likely does some of his work on public land.

Yup. Like the five day seasons.

 

[Eric Albus]

Eric - why not cow hunting first - then bull hunting?

I don’t think the landowners would go for it. From my experience in dealing with these sorts of issues the LO is going to say No Access to the elk if there is a chance of running the bulls off to see them slaughtered. With cows only the last 2-3 weeks of season access to the cows should be relatively easy to do.

 

[Eric Albus]

which you already knew the answer to

 

[Eric Albus]

So it’s no big SECRET

 

[The Hedgehog]

I don’t think the landowners would go for it. From my experience in dealing with these sorts of issues the LO is going to say No Access to the elk if there is a chance of running the bulls off to see them slaughtered. With cows only the last 2-3 weeks of season access to the cows should be relatively easy to do.

Well then. Those landowners should get eaten out of house and home by the destructive elk. And get no bull permits unless they draw like everybody else…

 

[Eric Albus]

I could care less about the perception or the semantics.
I care about results. The object is to lower elk numbers, if the best way to do it is giving a landowner (rich, poor, otherwise) a bull permit to get access to kill cow elk then so be it. You can hate me for that all you want.
Come up with a better idea, I’m all ears.

 

[Eric Albus]

Well then. Those landowners should get eaten out of house and home by the destructive elk. And get no bull permits unless they draw like everybody else…

Why such vitriol and hatred toward the people who are bearing the expense (self inflicted yes) but hold the keys? I’ve talked with a lot of folks who, like me, are on the outside looking in at elk. I’ve talked with very few who wouldn’t be thrilled for an opportunity to take a cow on an alfalfa field that they can drive up and load.
I learned in my youth “that life ain’t fair”. From the outside looking in, a cow elk is better than no elk.