Bulls for Billionaires - MT EQC Meeting today 1:30 PM

[Irishman]

Why not an “earn a bull program”. Starting august 15. Get 20 cows killed earn a bull tag.

So the Billionaire landowners get to hold the elk as ransom unless they get handed bull tags. You don't negotiate with kidnappers, it just encourages more kidnapping. Just lower the number of tags available in these units, let the elk numbers get out of control, and then when the billionaires want something done about it, let FWP make the rules.
However, reality is that Greg Gianforte and the Montana legislature are very pro Billionaire and big private landowner, and they are the ones controlling the FWP decision making. As long as all these underhanded deals get blamed on FWP leadership, and not Governor Greg, don't expect any change in the direction things are going. Changing Hank for someone else, won't make one bit of difference, as he would just be replaced by someone who does what the Governor wants also.

 

[brockel]

So the Billionaire landowners get to hold the elk as ransom unless they get handed bull tags. You don't negotiate with kidnappers, it just encourages more kidnapping. Just lower the number of tags available in these units, let the elk numbers get out of control, and then when the billionaires want something done about it, let FWP make the rules.

By letting the elk get out of control you aren’t sticking it to the billionaires. You are $*)Q!#@$ the little guy that’s just making it by. Those elk sit on that little guys hay field all summer long where he can’t do a damn thing about it. Even if he lets everyone and their dog on in the fall the damage is already done. Two or three get shot off the hay field and they move on. 100-150 elk all summer long on your hayfields doesn’t leave a lot left to be cut if you can’t irrigate. Which most can’t.

You honestly think the billionaire gives a shit if he has to buy extra hay for his hobby cattle?

 

[Dakotakid]

By letting the elk get out of control you aren’t sticking it to the billionaires. You are $*)Q!#@$ the little guy that’s just making it by. Those elk sit on that little guys hay field all summer long where he can’t do a damn thing about it. Even if he lets everyone and their dog on in the fall the damage is already done. Two or three get shot off the hay field and they move on. 100-150 elk all summer long on your hayfields doesn’t leave a lot left to be cut if you can’t irrigate. Which most can’t.

You honestly think the billionaire gives a shit if he has to buy extra hay for his hobby cattle?

This!

 

[Irishman]

By letting the elk get out of control you aren’t sticking it to the billionaires. You are $*)Q!#@$ the little guy that’s just making it by. Those elk sit on that little guys hay field all summer long where he can’t do a damn thing about it. Even if he lets everyone and their dog on in the fall the damage is already done. Two or three get shot off the hay field and they move on. 100-150 elk all summer long on your hayfields doesn’t leave a lot left to be cut if you can’t irrigate. Which most can’t.

You honestly think the billionaire gives a shit if he has to buy extra hay for his hobby cattle?

No I don't think that the Billionaire cares if he has to buy more hay, or if he even has cattle for that matter. Your suggestion of giving him a bull tag every time 20 cows get killed on his property, is a great one - for him. He gets 20 elk removed that he doesn't want, and he gets to "hunt" a bull he wants to kill. I don't see how that benefits hunting in that unit, apart from the 20 people (hand picked or otherwise), that get to shoot a semi tame cow elk.
As far as the "little guy" goes, won't allowing people to hunt his property drive the elk off it? Or does hunting pressure only drive elk off public land?

 

[brockel]

No I don't think that the Billionaire cares if he has to buy more hay, or if he even has cattle for that matter. Your suggestion of giving him a bull tag every time 20 cows get killed on his property, is a great one - for him. He gets 20 elk removed that he doesn't want, and he gets to "hunt" a bull he wants to kill. I don't see how that benefits hunting in that unit, apart from the 20 people (hand picked or otherwise), that get to shoot a semi tame cow elk.
As far as the "little guy" goes, won't allowing people to hunt his property drive the elk off it? Or does hunting pressure only drive elk off public land?

It benefits the elk management of that unit by getting numbers down to objective faster than what we are doing now. Which is the whole purpose of hunting now days to manage the herds. Unless we start hunting them all summer or using helicopters to get numbers down. Obviously management numbers need re-evaluated but they will still come up with over objective elk numbers in a lot of areas.

And I’ll say it again. Those elk on the little guys place have been there all summer long eating on his hay fields. The damage is done by the time hunting season is here. You could have the entire state of Montana hunting that guys place from September to December and still wouldn’t do a bit of good. The guy still doesn’t have any hay going into winter. Unless we start killing elk in May through the fall you aren’t doing that guy any good

 

[mtmiller]

The landowner DREW a 680 bull tag, and gave it up to the PH recipient.

Any 680 landowners that didn't get a permit this year?

 

[MTTW]

And I’ll say it again. Those elk on the little guys place have been there all summer long eating on his hay fields. The damage is done by the time hunting season is here. You could have the entire state of Montana hunting that guys place from September to December and still wouldn’t do a bit of good. The guy still doesn’t have any hay going into winter. Unless we start killing elk in May through the fall you aren’t doing that guy any good

A lot of people here like to bitch about shoulder seasons, but this is exactly what they are good for. Saving the small rancher that values grass. I have seen it work. Of course the elk all end up on the rich guy that harbors them and the population continues to grow. To the detriment of mule deer and any other critter that uses the range.

 

[brockel]

A lot of people here like to bitch about shoulder seasons, but this is exactly what they are good for. Saving the small rancher that values grass. I have seen it work. Of course the elk all end up on the rich guy that harbors them and the population continues to grow. To the detriment of mule deer and any other critter that uses the range.

I’m not a fan of shoulder seasons myself. Especially when we moved them to public land too. I am a fan of damage hunts. Killing the elk that are the actual problem animals.

 

[Carnage2011]

A lot of people here like to bitch about shoulder seasons, but this is exactly what they are good for. Saving the small rancher that values grass. I have seen it work. Of course the elk all end up on the rich guy that harbors them and the population continues to grow. To the detriment of mule deer and any other critter that uses the range.

We have damage hunts available for those small ranchers.

 

[brockel]

We have damage hunts available for those small ranchers.

Do they do them in May and June when the damage is being done?

 

[MTTW]

The damage hunts are definitely a useful tool. The area that I am familiar with at least temporarily doesn't have the problem anymore because after 2 years of shoulder season the elk avoid it like public now. Who knows how long it will last.

 

[brockel]

Wife has friends up by Wilsall. Elk all over the pivots all summer long. They let everybody and anybody kill cows all fall long. Would make calls letting people know when the elk were out. Killed tons of cows off it. In the end it still didn’t do them any good as they ate so much through the summer they didn’t have a lot of hay to cut. They now lease to an outfitter and use that money to buy hay.

 

[MTTW]

Wife has friends up by Wilsall. Elk all over the pivots all summer long. They let everybody and anybody kill cows all fall long. Would make calls letting people know when the elk were out. Killed tons of cows off it. In the end it still didn’t do them any good as they ate so much through the summer they didn’t have a lot of hay to cut. They now lease to an outfitter and use that money to buy hay.

I don't blame them. What to do? kill cows in June. You can't get at the cows in the fall. It is a neighbor problem that is unlikely to go away.

 

[The Hedgehog]

July august antlerless season is the answer. Man them tiny one would be delicious.

 

[brockel]

July august antlerless season is the answer. Man them tiny one would be delicious.

Easy to pack too

 

[The Hedgehog]

Easy to pack too

The idea is to be shooting them in a hayfield - should not be needing to pack one out.

 

[Carnage2011]

Do they do them in May and June when the damage is being done?

They have hay ready in May? Or what damage are we talking about? I believe FWP will haze elk off if a landowner calls them.

Also, my comment was about Shoulder seasons. They don’t take place in May/June so I’m not sure why you quoted me.

 

[brockel]

The idea is to be shooting them in a hayfield - should not be needing to pack one out.

Can’t be driving over that uncut hay

 

[brockel]

They have hay ready in May? Or what damage are we talking about? I believe FWP will haze elk off if a landowner calls them.

Also, my comment was about Shoulder seasons. They don’t take place in May/June so I’m not sure why you quoted me.

Looked out your window lately? Things are starting to grow. May isn’t that far away. Yes a ranchers hay starts growing right now through May into June. I don’t think FWP is going to sit on a hay field all night long running elk off until the hay is cut.

That’s my point. The damage hunts don’t happen in May or June when the damage is being done

 

[Carnage2011]

Looked out your window lately? Things are starting to grow. May isn’t that far away. Yes a ranchers hay starts growing right now through May into June. I don’t think FWP is going to sit on a hay field all night long running elk off until the hay is cut.

That’s my point. The damage hunts don’t happen in May or June when the damage is being done

Nothing growing at my house. I have two pivots out my back window that I could hit with a rock. Actually I could hit the 6” of snow that’s covering them…not the actual ground. I understand that hay grows in May and June. I’ll be turning on pivots in about 10 days,hopefully.

WTF is your point regarding my comment? I commented that we have damage hunts as an alternative to shoulder seasons. I didn’t say anything about May and June. Hell, if that’s what we are worried about then let’s kill them all year! There’s some prime second crop growing in July/August.

What is your solution to the “problem” of crop damage in May and June?