Bulls for Billionaires - MT EQC Meeting today 1:30 PM

[Gerald Martin]

Hard to demand a seat at the table and throw up our hands and say it is up to the neighbors to work it out.

How are you going to get the Horse Ranch to open up access so their neighbors don’t have elk eating their grass?

 

[BuzzH]

No, I don’t agree completely with that premise.

The breaks herd continues to grow and impact landowners that do allow public access.
I have not heard the biologists numbers but I did not see the desired reduction that the additional 1000 cow tags had to reduce the herd.

Law of diminishing returns...another thing the mtfwp fails to grasp.

Issuing thousands of tags makes the elk harboring WORSE.

Your accessible elk on public land, where you want them, get piss pounded and/or pushed into private where nobody can hunt.

Issue tags to kill the elk that are the problem, where they're a problem.

No, instead let's issue unit wide tags by the hundreds or thousands and then scratch our ass in total surprise why we aren't killing any elk and harboring gets worse.

Just a total lack of common sense.

 

[mtmuley]

Reduce the amount of hunters, length of seasons, eliminate the harvest of cow elk on public land for a long enough period of time for elk to select public land as their sanctuaries.

I understand the rationale behind this. But, getting Montana hunters behind it is futile. Also, there are elk herds that have lived on private lands for so long, the elk do not know anything different. I wonder how long it would take to recondition some of those populations. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

I understand the rationale behind this. But, getting Montana hunters behind it is futile. Also, there are elk herds that have lived on private lands for so long, the elk do not know anything different. I wonder how long it would take to recondition some of those populations. mtmuley

Not long...seen it. Elk that aren't pressured respond fast to fill their habitat.

What is reluctant to change is the social side of the problem.

Just like you said, Montana hunters seem content to bitch about private access and taking their rifles/bows for nice long hikes for 11 weeks.

Montana hunters would crap if they hunted general areas in Wyoming.

 

[brockel]

410 I was able to hunt nearly everywhere, ranches that outfit, opened to support cow reductions.
Certainly Harris in 700 harbored some early in the season but most of the elk dispersed.
The dry weather definitely impacted herd bunching and movement.

My perspective is about herd health and population. I am not a horn hunter.

Having hunted 700 and 410 multiple times last year the BLM grazed to dirt did not help the private land elk issues. Maybe our blm grazing needs to be evaluated. And that’s not just an issue last year. 13+ years of hunting up there you will find the blm grubbed down. It’s no wonder the elk head for the private where there is feed left

 

[Markleathers]

Newbie from Oregon

 

[Dakotakid]

I can’t keep up with ya.

How are you going to get the Horse Ranch to open up access so their neighbors don’t have elk eating their grass?

you can’t.
All you can do is trying to reduce the resentment for the people willing to partner with sportsman working to reduce impacts.

 

[mtmuley]

Not long...seen it. Elk that aren't pressured respond fast to fill their habitat.

How long? I guess what I mean is too long for Average Joe elk hunter. I get the private land elk issues. The majority of people buying an elk tag in Montana do not. That is what needs to change. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

How long? mtmuley

I bet within 3 hunting seasons you would see significantly better general hunting.

Many areas in Montana elk use public lands during the summer. If they weren't pressured for 11 weeks why would they leave?

Only reason they leave is because of pressure, dead in the back of a pickup, or really significant snow, that we rarely get even into December anymore.

 

[Dakotakid]

Having hunted 700 and 410 multiple times last year the BLM grazed to dirt did not help the private land elk issues. Maybe our blm grazing needs to be evaluated. And that’s not just an issue last year. 13+ years of hunting up there you will find the blm grubbed down. It’s no wonder the elk head for the private where there is feed left

No amount of BLM grass would draw the elk off the alfalfa before hunting season. FWP did substantial kill permits before the season and very large numbers of elk were congregated on the only green grass available.

 

[Dakotakid]

What concerns about herd health do you have in 410? I would consider 3200 elk in an area that large to be well under the carrying capacity of the habitat. I bet it could handle double that many elk without harm to the habitat or the elk.

I don’t hunt 410, but the reports of folks I know who do indicate diminishing bull/cow ratios and younger age classes/ smaller bulls as a result of increased either sex tags comparative to a decade ago.

You consider it under the carrying capacity but the landowners living with the impacts don’t agree with you.

 

[brockel]

No amount of BLM grass would draw the elk off the alfalfa before hunting season. FWP did substantial kill permits before the season and very large numbers of elk were congregated on the only green grass available.

And if they are killed off of that green grass maybe they will head to the blm that has some feed left instead of sending them to the surface of the moon

 

[BuzzH]

No amount of BLM grass would draw the elk off the alfalfa before hunting season. FWP did substantial kill permits before the season and very large numbers of elk were congregated on the only green grass available.

Then don't worry about it.

Let the landowners know the way to keep elk out of their alfalfa is to let people pressure them off.

Private land only cow permits and high powered rifles make that alfalfa look like kryptonite to elk.

The more they're hunted in the center pivots, the better the blm looks.

Fact.

 

[brockel]

I think the western side of 700 and eastern side of 410 will benefit greatly from the APR buying the 73 ranch

 

[BuzzH]

I think the western side of 700 and eastern side of 410 will benefit greatly from the APR buying the 73 ranch

Those are the type of owners we need more of.

They allow access but actually want elk on their property.

 

[mtmuley]

I think the western side of 700 and eastern side of 410 will benefit greatly from the APR buying the 73 ranch

Curious as to why. mtmuley

 

[Dakotakid]

I think the western side of 700 and eastern side of 410 will benefit greatly from the APR buying the 73 ranch

How so?

 

[BuzzH]

You consider it under the carrying capacity but the landowners living with the impacts don’t agree with you.

Who died and made landowners opinions the only concern?

I guess compromise is a one way street.

 

[brockel]

Curious as to why. mtmuley

Because it’s a big chunk of property that won’t get grazed to the dirt. Gives elk one more place to go instead on to the neighbors place that’s just making it by with what he has

 

[mtmuley]

Because it’s a big chunk of property that won’t get grazed to the dirt. Gives elk one more place to go instead on to the neighbors place that’s just making it by with what he has

And it is accessible to hunters? mtmuley