Bowhunters - not a big impact?

[Bigjay73]

Given the situation I don’t have an issues with not punching the tag and continuing to hunt. That’s your ethics not mine. I hit a bull in the knuckle one morning and double lunged one that afternoon. I also hunt to bring meat home and going home empty handed when I’m sure I just gave an elk an education is no reason to leave my freezer empty.

Whatever you can live with

 

[JDH]

I just watched a video on YT this weekend of a archery elk hunt in NM. The dude took a 70yd shot at an alert bull and was disappointed the bull "jumped the string" and the arrow hit the front edge of the rear leg. But they had already been hunting in the rain so I guess I was expecting too much.

And of course they never found the elk.

 

[Dubz337]

I just watched a video on YT this weekend of a archery elk hunt in NM. The dude took a 70yd shot at an alert bull and was disappointed the bull "jumped the string" and the arrow hit the front edge of the rear leg. But they had already been hunting in the rain so I guess I was expecting too much.

And of course they never found the elk.

Exhibit A. Bowhunting is hard, you gotta get closer, and A LOT of twats use this as an excuse to take stupid, unethical shots where things can and do go wrong. And then they justify it by saying dumb bowhunter lines like 'jumped the string'. If you got closer like you should maybe the elk wouldn't have been able to do that. And if you couldn't get closer, then I guess the elk won that one. Not every hunting trip ends in a shot opportunity, just how it is, lot of factors go into it. The fact they actually posted that video without shame kind of show their mentality, one they share with a lot of bowhunters out there.

 

[Bigjay73]

As long as they got good footage, who cares

 

[JDH]

Exhibit A. Bowhunting is hard, you gotta get closer, and A LOT of twats use this as an excuse to take stupid, unethical shots where things can and do go wrong. And then they justify it by saying dumb bowhunter lines like 'jumped the string'. If you got closer like you should maybe the elk wouldn't have been able to do that. And if you couldn't get closer, then I guess the elk won that one. Not every hunting trip ends in a shot opportunity, just how it is, lot of factors go into it. The fact they actually posted that video without shame kind of show their mentality, one they share with a lot of bowhunters out there.

In his defense he seemed pretty shook up about not finding it, searched for a couple of days, and said he was notching his tag, but he really shouldn't have been in that situation to start with.

 

[MTGomer]

Don't ever ask her or her minion deputies to come in and snuggle in your tent when they're checking your fishing license .......


At 2am

If she’s the USFWS cop, I’ve got a story…


2014 I think it was, we were coming out from paddle fishing. They had a checkpoint set up.
I didn’t catch any paddlefish.
She asked if I’d open my cooler. It was full of food and drinks. I told her our fish cooler was in my buddy’s truck who was right behind me. She said no problem. Checked my fishing license, all is good. I leave.

When we get i to service by Roy or wherever it is, my buddy calls me… she ripped his truck a part, cited him for violating the possession limit for having my fish in a cooler in his truck and interrogated him about providing alcohol to a minor because our other friends 19 year old brother was in the truck. Not drinking. Simply riding in a truck that has a cooler that has alcohol.

 

[rjthehunter]

Given the situation I don’t have an issues with not punching the tag and continuing to hunt. That’s your ethics not mine. I hit a bull in the knuckle one morning and double lunges one that afternoon. I also hunt to bring meat home and going home empty handed when I’m sure I just have a elk a education is no reason to leave my freezer empty.

I think the biggest thing is to exhaust all efforts trying to find the animal if you made a questionable shot. It happens, but I wouldn't expect someone to punch a tag if they grazed an animal and it was non-fatal.

Now if a guy gut shoots an elk on accident, then chases after it and it gets away, that's different.

 

[cgasner1]

I think the biggest thing is to exhaust all efforts trying to find the animal if you made a questionable shot. It happens, but I wouldn't expect someone to punch a tag if they grazed an animal and it was non-fatal.

Now if a guy gut shoots an elk on accident, then chases after it and it gets away, that's different.

I agree but the whole you drew blood should punch your tag…..I know a guy we refer to as pin cushion outdoors idk if he has punched his tag on a bull with under 3 arrows in it. This thread has kinda gone all over the place im not sure how anyone can argue bow or rifle causes more wounded critters both have there faults and it’s the people.

 

[TheTone]

Saw a great one of an influencer showing off his butt shot pronghorn. Claimed the arrow drifted due to shooting 70 yards in a 20 mph crosswind. He was also bragging it up as to how effective the femoral was. Of course he was upset about internet haters calling him out for taking a stupid shot

 

[Perlodid]

I actually agree with you on the fact that bow hunting has a large impact on wildlife. There does need to be an honest and detailed account of that impact when setting seasons and tag allocations. But this thread has degraded into the primal, "bow hunting bad, rifle good" BS.

The fact is that regardless of poaching wounding or any other jackassery, the impact of rifle hunting is hundreds of times greater than that of bowhunting. So, if the goal is to reduce the impact on the wildlife, then it only makes sense that it will be the rifle hunter that has to take the brunt of the burden.

The impact of rifle hunting is hundreds of times greater than that of bowhunting? Hundreds? I don't think that's true anywhere in the lower 48 at this point in time, and certainly not in the case highlighted in the original post.

 

[geetar]

It kinda sucks when you are rifle hunting in October and see a wounded 6 point bull from archery season but you don't have a bull tag so you can't do anything about it.

 

[TOGIE]

An off placed arrow might kill a bull in 24 hours whereas a bullet in the same location might kill it in 2 minutes. That fact alone means we're likely looking at more lost and dead bulls per hunter in archery than in rifle.

There are no official stats to say objectively one way or the other that i'm aware of. But my mind is made up on the matter.

The real rub, for me, is not who has a greater impact, necessarily, it's that archers have a tendency to be in full blown denial that they have negative impacts on elk herds. They are sooooo ethical and moral, after all

 

[SAJ-99]

I'm not sure how this thread turned into a BSD contest between rifle and archery wounding rates.

To get back on track. As an example, 313 only showed 10 rifle tags being issued in 2021, but 15 bucks were taken. I assume this is because 5,500ish 900-tag holders could hunt that unit. (EDIT- Sorry, I used the wrong number 313 is not part of 900 tag. I think I meant to be looking at 301, but the example still brings up the question). So clearly archery has an impact. I'm not sure how this accounted for by FWP in the tag setting. It is similar to 410 elk where only 150 rifle tags are issued but 1,900 archery tags go out. The harvest rate is obviously impacted by archery, but that might be more predictable because the archery tag is specifically for that unit. That isn't the case with the 900 tag. Is the answer to take out these smaller units out of the 900 tag?

 

[cgasner1]

An off placed arrow might kill a bull in 24 hours whereas a bullet in the same location might kill it in 2 minutes. That fact alone means we're likely looking at more lost and dead bulls per hunter in archery than in rifle.

There are no official stats to say objectively one way or the other that i'm aware of. But my mind is made up on the matter.

The real rub, for me, is not who has a greater impact, necessarily, it's that archers have a tendency to be in full blown denial that they have negative impacts on elk herds. They are sooooo ethical and moral, after all

I guess elk don’t get infections from bullets since you keep your barrel clean

 

[cgasner1]

I'm not sure how this thread turned into a BSD contest between rifle and archery wounding rates.

To get back on track. As an example, 313 only showed 10 rifle tags being issued in 2021, but 15 bucks were taken. I assume this is because 5,500ish 900-tag holders could hunt that unit. So clearly archery has an impact. I'm not sure how this accounted for by FWP in the tag setting. It is similar to 410 elk where only 150 rifle tags are issued but 1,900 archery tags go out. The harvest rate is obviously impacted by archery, but that might be more predictable because the archery tag is specifically for that unit. That isn't the case with the 900 tag. Is the answer to take out these smaller units out of the 900 tag?

View attachment 336955

Let me ask this is fwp keeping track of the 900 tags and the le tags? A antelope killed on a le tag but during the archery season probably shouldn’t count against the number killed in the 900 bundle. They are based on seperate numbers

 

[FREAK]

An off placed arrow might kill a bull in 24 hours whereas a bullet in the same location might kill it in 2 minutes. That fact alone means we're likely looking at more lost and dead bulls per hunter in archery than in rifle.

There are no official stats to say objectively one way or the other that i'm aware of. But my mind is made up on the matter.

The real rub, for me, is not who has a greater impact, necessarily, it's that archers have a tendency to be in full blown denial that they have negative impacts on elk herds. They are sooooo ethical and moral, after all

IDK, most of the archery hunters I know do it because it's significantly easier to find, get into, and harvest a bull elk when they're rutting. Nothing to do with ethics or morals or some chip on their shoulder about how righteous archery hunting is.

I think the point of the thread is to point out that archery hunters do in fact have a significant impact on harvest numbers. I think the success rate of archery hunting is going up slightly as technology improves, but I think it's still a low number on the average. My personal opinion is the bigger impact is the amount of people doing it is going up significantly.

I posted this a while ago but 10 years ago, you could draw the 900 elk permit second choice most years. Now it's not a guarantee as first choice (I haven't looked at it since the first choice only change). That's a lot more people dedicating their tag to an archery hunt. Even if success rates are low ~10%, that's a lot more elk hitting the turf. It just re-iterates the need for accurate reporting and better management to help adjust quotas and respond to harvest rates quicker.

As far as guys wounding 5 animals in a season, that sounds like a back in the day problem. Good luck having more than 2-3 encounters in one season with the way things are now.

 

[TOGIE]

I'm not sure how this thread turned into a BSD contest between rifle and archery wounding rates.

If you lived in colorado and ever interacted with either the Colorado Bow Hunters Assocation or even just an average profile colorado bow hunter you would be fairly triggered by any topic that remotely touches on things involving bowhunting, impact, and wounding.

buncha pudgy cam hanes gremlins everywhere you look. if only they did PEDs like he did maybe they could effing kill something for once.

 

[Ought Six]

Wonder if requiring arrows/broadheads to have a person’s name and contact info on them would keep some folks from taking unethical shots. At least you’d have an idea who killed the elk when you walk up on a carcass with an arrow sticking out of it.

Found a cow elk last year, double lunged with an Iron Will tipped arrow sticking out behind the shoulder. The shooter must not have looked very hard for her, or didn’t want to recover her.

 

[SAJ-99]

Let me ask this is fwp keeping track of the 900 tags and the le tags? A antelope killed on a le tag but during the archery season probably shouldn’t count against the number killed in the 900 bundle. They are based on seperate number?

I edited the last post. I got the 313 unit confused with 301, but the my question on the solution still is valid for these smaller units. But now I'm not sure how 15 bucks got taken in 313.

Clearly FWP has this data. They know when they call who has what tag. They just don't share it on the harvest data site. The harvest data is by unit, not by tag #. I think you question brings up the point of whether or not the 900 tag should even exist in this day and age of hunting. The 007 license could be justified, but 900 is more difficult.

 

[TOGIE]

Nothing to do with ethics or morals or some chip on their shoulder about how righteous archery hunting is.

but, let's be very honest - I think a lot of folks these days are specifically attracted to archery because it is harder and that rolls into ethics for them. I've met several people personally that don't think rifle hunting is "sporting" and therefore choose to do archery and absolutely have stated they think it's superior from that standpoint.

Perhaps the chip is on my shoulder.

even if, I DGAF. my broad brushed inflammatory views on bowhunters won't be changing anytime soon