Blue Lives Matter
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3855WIN
Well-known member
There’s a lot of credibility to that. But you also won’t see many millionaires shoot a person on the street or hold up a bank with a gun.
Also true. But the point he’s making has to do with what would happen to those millionaires if they did. And the answer is, they would be better off than a poor guy like me.
Murder usually isn't the start of life that centers around repeated incarceration and all the negatives that come with that for the individual and his family.
My kid messes up for something stupid and our lawyer had to work off some his retainer. He has has way better chance of not spending his college years in jail and better chance to recover from early poor decision.
Same situation with a young person from an improvised background and he is spends his college age moping jail floors.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
But domestic disputes and drug use are fairly common across economic groups and the disparities definitely show up.
FlatlandHunter
Active member
With 23 years in next month I only have 3 years and 5 months until I can walk which I hadn’t planned on doing. My wife wants me out of LE so I will see where the country is at that point and make a decision. Maybe BigFin will need another cameraman/pack mule and I can come work for him. 
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Thank you for your service.With 23 years in next month I only have 3 years and 5 months until I can walk which I hadn’t planned on doing. My wife wants me out of LE so I will see where the country is at that point and make a decision. Maybe BigFin will need another cameraman/pack mule and I can come work for him.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
I recall a quote from a wizened mentor, "the fix is good if you're in on it." And you better believe there's a direct line from the country club to city hall, that runs right thru the court when necessary.
Nievity in children is cute, but in adults it's scary.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
At the level of generic sentiment, I can agree. But in actuality, it is less directly corrupt than some cynics may suggest. I work in countries where direct cash payments or a job for a family member are openly solicited by govt officials and judges. I also work in countries that bribery is more subtle and veiled. The US system is neither of those. But what we do have is an extremely complex and expensive system. A system that when on auto-pilot in practice assumes guilt and demands proof of innocence, but when challenged by well-paid lawyers flips to a very high burden in favor of innocence. The benefit of the well off and the well connected is that they are able to "flip the switch" from assumed guilt to a very high bar favoring innocence.
Additionally, our legal system/culture tries, for the most part, to return potentially productive members of society back into their normal lives as quickly as possible, and frankly too often our assumptions about race and our assumptions about the poor allow this part of the system to implicitly favor the well off and the white over others because they come with the presumption of value that others lives are not always afforded.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
I don't buy the bolded part for a second. The only way a for profit prison makes money is when the jail cells are full. The legal system and elected officials that are heavily greased by those building these for profit endeavors make sure they pay back those that help them get elected. Its not personal, its just business...and all kinds of legislation is passed to make sure that: 1. The business of for profit jails have plenty of new, returning and long term customers 2. Lets make sure that legislation doesn't apply equally to the influential and well heeled. 3. Nobody that suffers under that kind of legislation (poor, minorities, etc.) has the time or money to put up any kind of fight to reverse, challenge, or change it.
If we were really serious about the bolded part, we would invest as much in mental health care, invest more in education, invest in poor communities, etc. etc. to keep them from landing in a for profit jail cell to start with. I just don't think prison is the best place to rehabilitate or try to help potentially productive members of society return to normal lives...in particular those that have it rough from the get-go.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
We might be in partial agreement, in the sense that those prisons are filled with the poor and the black, not white suburbanites. That the system values white suburbanites more than the poor and the black, so one group gets soft treatment and the other harsh treatment.
Where we will likely have to agree to disagree, I am not as cynical about private prisons. History shows that the dramatic uptick in incarceration started well before that industry got its sea legs. But no doubt if we desire to move away from present incarceration rates there is now a business-driven headwind.
A little levity with a lot of truth:
I am hopeful (somewhat) that some serious dialogue and solutions will come out of this current turn of events. We have been here before but lacked the courage to address the issues in a cogent manner. Joe Rogan had a interesting podcast with Jocko Willink discussing lack of training in our LEO community...worth a listen.
America dearly needs strong national and local black leadership and role models to begin laying the foundation and road map for a path to economic freedom. The numbers are frightening (single parent households, lack of HS education, birth out of wedlock, lack of engaged fathers, % on public assistance, % of black male incarceration, etc). So many missed opportunities. How does America get this segment of our population engaged in the economic engine that drives our economy and will ultimately lead to a better quality of life for them?
I am hopeful (somewhat) that some serious dialogue and solutions will come out of this current turn of events. We have been here before but lacked the courage to address the issues in a cogent manner. Joe Rogan had a interesting podcast with Jocko Willink discussing lack of training in our LEO community...worth a listen.
America dearly needs strong national and local black leadership and role models to begin laying the foundation and road map for a path to economic freedom. The numbers are frightening (single parent households, lack of HS education, birth out of wedlock, lack of engaged fathers, % on public assistance, % of black male incarceration, etc). So many missed opportunities. How does America get this segment of our population engaged in the economic engine that drives our economy and will ultimately lead to a better quality of life for them?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Then you haven't been paying attention...
406dn
Well-known member
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I have significant cynicism concerning private prisons. IMO, if a government finds the need to incarcerate an individual, it should not be a profit center for anyone. Once you enter into an agreement to partner with a private prison,, you are at least tacitly agreeing to supply customers for the private prison into the future.
Any marginal decline in prisoner numbers,,,you know damn well the private prison does not want that headcount decline coming out of their headcount.
I find private prisons extremely repugnant at every level.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Politicians (of both flavors) pandering to the fears of white voters - and white voters rewarding them with consistent votes - is what brought us the incarceration problem, not private business. I am not saying private prisons are a good thing, or that now they don't pose a problem, but history does not put the responsibility on them for where we are - that is on white voters who bought into Nixon's southern strategy and Clinton/Biden's tough on crime rhetoric and laws.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Right, because since we started down the road of for-profit prisons, we haven't seen any state or federal laws that keep a steady stream of customers checking into the private crowbar hotels.
Got it.
I wont apologize for choosing not to play rip van winkle...ymmv.
Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
I don't think that private business is necessarily an evil thing. Government should stay out of "running things" as much as possible. For many reasons, but one is to let the specialist/experts run it. But I do think there has to be checks and balances in place to protect all parties involved. Difficult to enforce, but necessary.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I like to understand how we actually got there rather than taking an easy superficial read and blaming "others", but as you say, ymmv
Also, saving fact-checking task of @wllm1313 on this one - there have been a number of sentence reduction laws passed at the state and fed level during the era of private prisons.
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