Blue Lives Matter

[Ben Lamb]

That sounds pretty terrible. In general I think there are a lot of jobs where we're not able to get good people because the compensation is so low. For a long time WA teachers where in that box, most State and County jobs (I could do the same thing I'm doing now for either the State or County, but would have to take a 40-50% pay cut).

There's an old saying in politics that your budget is the gateway to your true priorities in governance.

If we aren't paying our LEO's, teachers, other public servants enough for them to think the job is worth it, then we need to reconsider that, along with how we pay for those services.

MT for example had a mandatory 4% cut to each agency for the last decade at the direction of majority leadership. That meant tons of unfilled positions across agencies like the Department of Justice, Wardens, Prisons, etc. When we say that an extra $25 in our pockets is worth more than well paid police, then I think we get the gov't we ask for.

Similarly, when we blow budgets on feel-good malarkey, rather than provide basic services at decent wages, we end up in the same place. There's a lot of ways to skin this cat, but at he end of the day, it comes down to the budget, and where we as a local, state and national community want to go.

 

[3855WIN]

Local stuff. Appears he needed to be fired.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281744266981601280

 

[3855WIN]

But look at what the cops are dealing with.
They were looking for an armed robber. Turns out, he’s 13 years old. Did you rob people at gun point at 13?!?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1278325210618396672

 

[3855WIN]

These two armed kids were shot by a citizen as the youngsters were trying to break into cars. Both 14 year olds had pistols. This was 3:30 am. Not a cop problem, a parent problem.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1282675127700934657

 

[JLS]

Those references are obviously a sign of a societal problem, but let's not use it to detract from the fact there are issues within law enforcement that need remedied.

 

[grosventre]

So tell me what you know about the guidelines for hiring? what do you think they need to do in hiring that they don't do now. Why do you think officers are hiding officers bad conduct, tell me about those examples? and how much training on conflict resolution do police officers receive now and what should it be increased to? Everyone is an expert, i would like to hear what exactly what you personally know about these topics. You are just watching videos of what you see on you-tube and television that fit a narrative. Are there bad cops, yes there are. How many officers are decertified every year for bad conduct? sounds like none if you listen to the experts. Please help me understand since everyone knows exactly what is going on. Do yourself a favor and go ahead and google use of force statistics in the last couple years. You will find that there is a false narrative out there that is driving a political agenda.

Rich

Well said sir! I bet he can't answer any of your questions without google.

 

[Sytes]

Blue Lives Matter. This is not a single race, gender, age issue...

Blue Lives Matter. This is a thank you from sworn LEO's for respecting laws enforced by Americans who want to return home each end of shift to value his/her family.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Along the lines of BenLamb's earlier post -- we need to start using the word AND in these discussions. The political extremes, "political class" and social media warriors make their living (literally $$) on demanding we all pick one side. This is a huge mistake, and frankly, in my opinion, is the single gravest threat to the survival of this great democratic experiment since the civil war.

There are many great police who do extremely difficult jobs with insufficient pay, support or funding; AND

there are some bad cops who bring a militarized point of view to their job, often with a fair amount of racial bias - they need to go, and the good police who know them best need to help get this done; AND

we need to relieve the burden of some of the social issues on our police - they shouldn't be responding to minor neighborhood squabbles, simple vagrancy, medical 911 calls, etc; AND

the police reform advocates need to face into the fact that some of these situations have been driven by the ultimate victim and that we all need to support a more law abiding culture; AND

we need to materially address the long-standing disadvantages of being born poor and black in America; AND

we need to address a shortage of living wage jobs for all lower/mid income Americans; AND

we have to have a regulatory framework and tax policy that fosters the creation of those jobs - government spending is a "perpetual motion machine" -- it can't run on its own - it needs outside energy ($$) and that is driven by the job creators; AND

AND;

AND;

 

[3855WIN]

We don’t have a cop problem, we have a bad citizen problem. If we do have a cop problem, just fire the white ones.

Seattle City Council Member Suggests Firing White Officers In Massive Reduction Of Police Department

The Seattle City Council is facing something of a dilemma in its popular pledge to cut the police budget by 50 percent. To do so would require firing a significant number of police officers, which …

jonathanturley.org

 

[JLS]

We don’t have a cop problem AND, we have a bad citizen problem

Please see @VikingsGuy 's post

 

[3855WIN]

Please see @VikingsGuy 's post

https://twitter.com/x/status/1283988020622852099

 

[JLS]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1283988020622852099

It's also pretty easy to find documented instances of police misconduct. Big deal. The problem exists from both angles, no?

 

[rtraverdavis]

So tell me what you know about the guidelines for hiring? what do you think they need to do in hiring that they don't do now. Why do you think officers are hiding officers bad conduct, tell me about those examples? and how much training on conflict resolution do police officers receive now and what should it be increased to? Everyone is an expert, i would like to hear what exactly what you personally know about these topics. You are just watching videos of what you see on you-tube and television that fit a narrative. Are there bad cops, yes there are. How many officers are decertified every year for bad conduct? sounds like none if you listen to the experts. Please help me understand since everyone knows exactly what is going on. Do yourself a favor and go ahead and google use of force statistics in the last couple years. You will find that there is a false narrative out there that is driving a political agenda.

Rich

You’re right. I don’t know what it’s like and I certainly can’t speak to specifics. I am not a cop, nor have I had a truly bad interaction with one. My basis for the points I made come from listening to people who know more about the issues than me, one of them being my good friend who is a cop. Europe asked for ideas, I stated some. But I’m completely open to hearing how those ideas are off-base. I’m an expert in nothing besides the inner workings of my own life.

 

[3855WIN]

It's also pretty easy to find documented instances of police misconduct. Big deal. The problem exists from both angles, no?

There are millions of good citizen/LEO interactions for a handful of bad ones. Most of the bad interactions get posted on the web. But take a look at media for the past couple of months and you’ll find thousands of examples of citizens treating LEOs like trash and the LEOs just take it. Guess what? LEOs are humans. They have a breaking point. They let a whole lot go that the average citizen wouldn’t tolerate.
We need to remember that LEOs are enforcing the thousands of laws that the citizens ask them to enforce.
A New York man was killed by cops putting him in a choke hold for selling illegal cigarettes. Bad cop? Sure. But why was the cop even there? Cigs were being sold illegally because the cig tax was so high in New York.

 

[JLS]

See below responses in bold. I find the law enforcement community to be particularly lacking in introspection at times. This is not a time to shirk their responsibility to look within and work to improve.

Let me restate my question from above, as you didn't answer it.

The problem exists from both angles, no?

There are millions of good citizen/LEO interactions for a handful of bad ones.

Yes, there are. Never said anything to the contrary

Most of the bad interactions get posted on the web.

Yes, a lot of them do. Yet the fact remains they are still happening.

But take a look at media for the past couple of months and you’ll find thousands of examples of citizens treating LEOs like trash and the LEOs just take it.

Part of the job.

Guess what? LEOs are humans.

Yes, they are.

They have a breaking point. They let a whole lot go that the average citizen wouldn’t tolerate.

It's called being a professional.

We need to remember that LEOs are enforcing the thousands of laws that the citizens ask them to enforce.

Yes, they do. They also have discretion

A New York man was killed by cops putting him in a choke hold for selling illegal cigarettes. Bad cop? Sure. But why was the cop even there? Cigs were being sold illegally because the cig tax was so high in New York.

Just because you are put in the position where you have the ability to make a poor decision, does not mean you are obligated to do so. Elijah McCain is dead because he was walking home from the store. Should he have stopped for the officer? Maybe, although I can't really figure out what reason there was to detain him. As I said, there are numerous examples of inexcusable behavior that has nothing to do with bad citizens.

 

[Zach]

See below responses in bold. I find the law enforcement community to be particularly lacking in introspection at times. This is not a time to shirk their responsibility to look within and work to improve.

Let me restate my question from above, as you didn't answer it.

Of my LEO friends, none have said any different.
Just my .02, but the "union" has long swept their trash under the rug. Saw it in the Teamsters, saw it in the Communication Workers of America, no first hand with interaction with LEO unions, but my guess is they've done their share as well. Is some reform required, yes, but so is some compliance.

 

[Mallardsx2]

If someone threw a turd at me I would strongly contemplate shooting them. At a minimum they would need a dentist appointment.

And thats why I cant be a police officer.

 

[VikingsGuy]

We don’t have a cop problem, we have a bad citizen problem. If we do have a cop problem, just fire the white ones.

Seattle City Council Member Suggests Firing White Officers In Massive Reduction Of Police Department

The Seattle City Council is facing something of a dilemma in its popular pledge to cut the police budget by 50 percent. To do so would require firing a significant number of police officers, which …

jonathanturley.org

Pretty obvious that this is illegal; AND it is dumb to reduce headcount solely by seniority. Reductions in staff should be based on performance and alignment of skills and behaviors necessary for the future of the department - just like all non-union companies.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

See below responses in bold. I find the law enforcement community to be particularly lacking in introspection at times. This is not a time to shirk their responsibility to look within and work to improve.

Let me restate my question from above, as you didn't answer it.

Give or take on a daily basis let's say LEOs across the country are involved in over 1 million law enforcement interactions. Shits gonna happen. 100% of the time the cop is to blame in the eyes of the mainstream.

You walk up your stairs a million times in one day your gonna trip once. So arent LEOs regardless of 50 hrs of training or 1 hour of training.

 

[JLS]

Of my LEO friends, none have said any different.
Just my .02, but the "union" has long swept their trash under the rug. Saw it in the Teamsters, saw it in the Communication Workers of America, no first hand with interaction with LEO unions, but my guess is they've done their share as well. Is some reform required, yes, but so is some compliance.

It is an interesting paradox in that unions exist to protect officers from corrupt and unethical administrators and inequitable treatment, yet the unions can be corrupted as well.

As far as compliance, there is a dangerous coexistence of officers who don't fully understand their legal authority and limitations, and citizens who don't fully understand the constitutional rights and limitations.