Blue Lives Matter

[seeth07]

I'll give a little personal insight on this topic.

I was born and raised in a suburb of Milwaukee which is actually not far from where this latest event occurred. I also went to college in downtown Milwaukee.

When I was in high school, a very disturbing event took place while a buddy and myself were driving through a neighborhood with a high crime rate on our way downtown. We hit a bad pothole in the road and got a flat tire. While changing this tire, we were approached by a group of people our age or slightly order. It was 2 white men and 4 black men. They robbed us. From that point forward, I can't tell you how careful and protective I am of anyone that looks in a similar way to this group of people. It is not the color of the skin but rather the persona and image that they portray. Is that wrong of me? Maybe so. Not everyone with a Fubu shirt on is going to rob me. However, it was an event that imprinted that in my brain and forces my mind to connect them together.

If I had to guess, I'm going to say that a bulk of these officer shootings are a result of a long history of similar events as what happened to me. These officers are working in mostly high crime areas where these events occur and every day they feel they are risking their lives as they encounter and deal with the crimes in these areas. Most of them I would bet had a prior experience where they didn't fire their weapon and things didn't go so smoothly. Maybe a fellow officer got punched, or stabbed, or maybe the suspect hurt another civilian nearby, etc. How often do you see these events where the officer in question is fresh from the academy? Its always an experienced officer from what I have gathered.

 

[asdew1880]

For anyone interested in learning, answering questions and dipping their toes in the academic world
I can post more if anyone wants.

 

[Panda Bear]

Correct. Why does a young man embrace a life of crime from a young age? Multiple contributing factors, but the biggest factor would be just not seeing another way to move forward. As a society, we have to do a better jobs of providing pathways to success.

But how does burning it down help. The business now out of business might have provided jobs that would let one "see" their way out. Also, some business are closing up and moving away from the riot cities because of the continuing burning and looting. More possible jobs lost, as well as tax revenue the cities would have collected from those business, which might go toward both education and jobs to those looking for a way out. I respond only because it happens up this way also. However, when we ( native canadians ) are asked whether or not we believe the RCMP should be defunded in some way, we say NO. Do they ever make a mistake. Yes. But the number of times they have done the right thing far out weights the times when one of them made a mistake.

Are there any stats in the U.S. showing how many criminals are removed from your society each year for your protection ? If there is, compare that number to the number of mistakes they ( LEO ) make each year.

Again respectively submitted from a non U.S. citizen

 

[Scrappy]

Alright, it seems you're more interested in creating a distraction than responding to the topic, so I'll do the math, in context...

328M U.S. Citizens
207.9M White (63.4%)
43.9M Black (13.4%)

215 Whites shot/207.9M = 0.0001034%
111 Blacks shot/43.9M = 0.0002528%

Or roughly 2.5 times more often.

To put it plainly, if you are black, you are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than if you are white, according to your own statistics.

Yes, these are very small numbers, but it's that 2.5 times more likely that people are upset about.

Now, to prove my theory, all we need to do is run a few thousands normal citizens through the shoot simulator MNElkNut went through, present them with 63.4% white subjects and 13.4% black subjects, and see how the shoot numbers shake out. It would not surprise me one bit if that 2.5x figure held up through that exercise among the average U.S. citizens. This is what folks mean by "systemic racism."

You keep leaving out the part where officers are having significantly more encounters with black criminals on a daily basis. Put those numbers in and the whole black and white thing is null and void. Simply put, if there is ten times the number of zebras on the road than there are antelope guess which one will be hit by cars more often.

I will get flamed for this but oh well. Stop doing the crime and do what the officers tell you so nobody has to be shot.

 

[3855WIN]

We’ve got a tough case coming up, locally.

Black preacher robbed and murdered unlocking his church.
Everyone wants answers and wants an arrest.
Three Black officers go to an abandoned house where a suspect is known to hang out. He’s not there, but another man is. Cops try to get him to talk. Hit him in the head with A mag light.
The guy died two days later from a head injury. Not good. Me and a Black coworker saw this on the news in the break room and said to each other, “this isn’t gonna be good”.
Later on, four young Black men are arrested for killing the pastor.
Now, the three cops are charged with homicide.
Are the cops bad guys? By all accounts, no. Did they commit a crime in an attempt to gather information on another crime? They very well might have.
If four young men hadn’t robbed a preacher, none of this would’ve happened.
Maybe we need better cops, but I know we need better citizens.

 

[Glockster]

Update: New footage shows Jacob Blake fighting with officers before being shot - LeoAffairs

In what seems to be becoming the norm, new footage has been released in relation to a police use-of-force incident, adding a modicum of clarity to an event that had kicked off rioting and violence only days prior.

leoaffairs.com

Second video. Doesn’t answer all the questions but it appears there was physical altercation that started behind the vehicle then moved to the passenger side and then eventually led to the shooting.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

You keep leaving out the part where officers are having significantly more encounters with black criminals on a daily basis. Put those numbers in and the whole black and white thing is null and void. Simply put, if there is ten times the number of zebras on the road than there are antelope guess which one will be hit by cars more often.

I will get flamed for this but oh well. Stop doing the crime and do what the officers tell you so nobody has to be shot.

Read the last few pages. There are explanations there that will address your biases if you want to see them. If not, then nothing will change your mind anyway.

Your comment actually helps make my point in a way - that there are a disproportionately high number of officer/subject encounters with blacks and especially black men. So let's engage our brain and try to understand the cause and not just obsess over the symptom.

Too often, us imperfect humans just want a quick and easy solution for problems, and especially problems that make them uncomfortable, and even more especially problems that they might be involved in creating - whether consciously or unconsciously. There are long-term, deeply rooted, systemic causes that lead to the symptom you describe. Until we address those, the symptoms will just continue.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Maybe we need better cops, but I know we need better citizens.

We need both. No need for qualifiers.

 

[seeth07]

Update: New footage shows Jacob Blake fighting with officers before being shot - LeoAffairs

In what seems to be becoming the norm, new footage has been released in relation to a police use-of-force incident, adding a modicum of clarity to an event that had kicked off rioting and violence only days prior.

leoaffairs.com

Second video. Doesn’t answer all the questions but it appears there was physical altercation that started behind the vehicle then moved to the passenger side and then eventually led to the shooting.

" Blake’s criminal records show that he had a prior history of using firearms to commit crimes and injuring police prior to the Sunday incident. Additionally, a prior warrant issued for accusations of misdemeanor criminal trespass to a dwelling with domestic abuse as a modifier; felony third-degree sexual assault with domestic abuse as a modifier; and misdemeanor disorderly conduct with domestic abuse as a modifier. "

When the officers reported to this scene, I wonder if the call from dispatch and their fancy laptop already had that information with a big red flag on it for them. Then something said by the suspect like "I'm going to kill you" or "I have a gun in the car" might explain what we witnessed from the first video.

 

[Randi]

I'll give a little personal insight on this topic.

I was born and raised in a suburb of Milwaukee which is actually not far from where this latest event occurred. I also went to college in downtown Milwaukee.

When I was in high school, a very disturbing event took place while a buddy and myself were driving through a neighborhood with a high crime rate on our way downtown. We hit a bad pothole in the road and got a flat tire. While changing this tire, we were approached by a group of people our age or slightly order. It was 2 white men and 4 black men. They robbed us. From that point forward, I can't tell you how careful and protective I am of anyone that looks in a similar way to this group of people. It is not the color of the skin but rather the persona and image that they portray. Is that wrong of me? Maybe so. Not everyone with a Fubu shirt on is going to rob me. However, it was an event that imprinted that in my brain and forces my mind to connect them together.

If I had to guess, I'm going to say that a bulk of these officer shootings are a result of a long history of similar events as what happened to me. These officers are working in mostly high crime areas where these events occur and every day they feel they are risking their lives as they encounter and deal with the crimes in these areas. Most of them I would bet had a prior experience where they didn't fire their weapon and things didn't go so smoothly. Maybe a fellow officer got punched, or stabbed, or maybe the suspect hurt another civilian nearby, etc. How often do you see these events where the officer in question is fresh from the academy? Its always an experienced officer from what I have gathered.

I will use this gentleman's post to relate how his point works even in other situations.

I had a negative reaction to Hunting Wife being called "Baby" here on the forum. When in college I was restrained and harassed by three men who used the word "baby" very other word in their tormenting dialog. Even today a certain "type" of person, place or situation makes me a bit more anxious and aware. We are all human ( Even police officers ) and sometimes events in our lives create concerns, caution, even fear.

I also agree with Scrappy that if you are obeying the law and any requests or demands by a police officer, your chances of being shot is pretty remote. In fact, since we have a couple fellows here who are good at posting "stats"

How many citizens have been shot by police officers that have not committed a crime or resisted the verbal instructions of a police officer ?

 

[TheJason]

You keep leaving out the part where officers are having significantly more encounters with black criminals on a daily basis.

There is data available that shows a bias in traffic stops during the hours of daylight, that doesn't exist during the hours of darkness.

 

[TheJason]

do what the officers tell you so nobody has to be shot.

I'm sure Philandro Castille would view this statement with a high level of distaste.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Seeth, that would help explain the officer's actions and will surely be brought up in his trial.

I wonder if the internet jockeys, talk radio and everyone else who will weigh in on Blake's actions will bother to spend any time at all looking at what things in his life led him to this point. In other words, are we at all interested in addressing the cause, or are we happy just reacting to the symptoms every time this happens, the way we have for the past 200 years.

 

[TheJason]

If four young men hadn’t robbed a preacher, none of this would’ve happened.

Sorry, but it's disingenuous to say that my bad judgement is merely a result of someone else putting me in a situation I shouldn't have been in. They are independent circumstances.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Sorry, but it's disingenuous to say that my bad judgement is merely a result of someone else putting me in a situation I shouldn't have been in. They are independent circumstances.

We can trace it all back to a woman with an apple, I'm pretty sure.

 

[longbow51]

We all agree there are problems. The appropriate denominator for bad interactions is not % of population, but number of crimes committed. This yields far different conclusions. As far as solutions, sometimes, rather that opining (wild ass guessing) what might work , maybe read up on the effects of the Great Society (Lyndon Johnson) upon black families. Look at the progress of blacks in the 30 years prior to and 30 years after said interventions. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[DouglasR]

We can trace it all back to a woman with an apple, I'm pretty sure.

Easy pal, let’s not go assuming any genders on this one.

 

[Randi]

Easy pal, let’s not go assuming any genders on this one.

My grandfather is guilty of this one. He always says "God took a rib from Adam and made a loudspeaker"

 

[noharleyyet]

My grandfather is guilty of this one. He always says "God took a rib from Adam and made a loudspeaker"

Loudspeaker or not, they reign undefeated.

Change my mind.

 

[rwc101]

[QUOTE="rwc101, post: 3058093, member: 40156"The only people given leniency when it comes to killing another human are police.

How so?
[/QUOTE]

They are given extraordinary leeway when it comes to justifying a shooting, and the incredibly low conviction rate for police officers that have killed attests to society's historical tolerance of police force.