Black powder substitutes?

[Papsqueeg]

Here in Pa I go to Dixons in Kutztown. It' a small muzzleloading shop which usually stocks not only Goex, but Swiss, and sometimes Elephant powders in all granulations.
They have a website, that may answer any questions.

As for blackpowder substitutes, 777 is decent.

i go to richs outdoor world in summerville,pa for powder call ahead and they will reserve you some.

 

[bobcat_trapper]

Went into a shop Friday. They had several cans of blackhorn 209. It was 85.00 plus tax a can. I fount a deal from a local guy. He was selling his muzzle loader stuff. I bought 4 10 oz cans for 80.00. Best deal I got in a long time. Arkansas has passed the straight wall cartridge. Usage during muzzle loader season. I was going to look at a 450 bushmaster. When I bought the 4 cans. I have enough blackhorn to do me know.

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

I wanted to try bh209 but am not really in a position to sell a kidney right now so I just use 777 and things still seem to get dead after I shoot them

 

[Chris d1971]

Took two deer this year using American pioneer powder sub. Wish they still made in it.

 

[Sheltowee]

Took two deer this year using American pioneer powder sub. Wish they still made in it.

Pretty sure the Shooters World Multi-Purpose Black is the same product. I've seen it on the shelf at Scheels fairly regularly and also stocked by most of the reputable internet sellers.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I just picked up my new 45 caliber inline yesterday.

Growing up I have always used Goes black powder.
Alas, now finding actual black powder to buy just isn't going to happen.
Aside from making my own.

So looking at substitutes, which is a better choice?
I really didn't care for Pyrodex. Corrosive.

Triple 7 is and has always been my go-to. Easy water cleanup, readily available, great velocities and very accurate. I shot through two cans of BH 209 and I know a lot of people sing its praises, but I'm going back to Triple 7 next year and not looking back.

 

[WildWill]

Triple 7 is and has always been my go-to. Easy water cleanup, readily available, great velocities and very accurate. I shot through two cans of BH 209 and I know a lot of people sing its praises, but I'm going back to Triple 7 next year and not looking back.

I was impressed with what I saw on the range from the BH209. What wasn't impressive was the 2 failure to fires while hunting in the two years I used it. In 10+ years of using I've never had it fail while hunting which is why I switched back.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I was impressed with what I saw on the range from the BH209. What wasn't impressive was the 2 failure to fires while hunting in the two years I used it. In 10+ years of using I've never had it fail while hunting which is why I switched back.

Yea, I forgot to mention this sneaky little feature of BH209 - that you MUST use full-strength (read, overpowered) 209 shotgun primers, which of late have been hard to find. I have a stockpile of 209 ML primers, and was forced to hunt with those this season, but upon "unloading" my rifle at the end of the last day, I had a hang fire and the bullet impact was a good 12" low at 100 yards, so I probably would have missed whatever I was shooting at anyway. Right then and there I swore I'd never use it again. Never once had that problem with Triple 7, even with #10 or #11 caps in an old Ruger 77/50. Killed a lot of deer with that combo over the years, out to 140 yards.

 

[Sheltowee]

Yea, I forgot to mention this sneaky little feature of BH209 - that you MUST use full-strength (read, overpowered) 209 shotgun primers, which of late have been hard to find. I have a stockpile of 209 ML primers, and was forced to hunt with those this season, but upon "unloading" my rifle at the end of the last day, I had a hang fire and the bullet impact was a good 12" low at 100 yards, so I probably would have missed whatever I was shooting at anyway. Right then and there I swore I'd never use it again. Never once had that problem with Triple 7, even with #10 or #11 caps in an old Ruger 77/50. Killed a lot of deer with that combo over the years, out to 140 yards.

BH209 definitely does best with 209M primers and a BH-specific breech plug. I have the Arrowhead conversion unit installed in my Remington 700 Ultimate (no 50x scope on board, though, this is Colorado after all) that uses LRM primers. Ignition with that setup is pretty much identical to a centerfire.

 

[Schutzhund]

Others spot on about BH209 specific breech plug. Hang fires are for real with the CVA stock breech plugs. Federal 209A primers are my go to.

BH209 is NOT hygroscopic and will not absorb moisture from the air at home, in storage, at the range or most importantly in the field.

Non corrosive, I've left my inline loaded all season before and fired it post season, no issues or corrosion. It's stupid expensive which is a major turnoff. I'm still nursing a couple 12oz cans I bought almost 10 years ago before they jacked up the price and reduced cans to 10oz...it's criminal.

 

[Mallardsx2]

A decade ago I had a failure to fire with BH209 on a very cold Nebraska deer hunt one year. I put in another primer and did kill the deer.

Then this year I had a half hearted fire while checking the gun prior to season and hit 24” low at 100 yards.

It is the only 3”2 issues I have ever had but I find that very concerning.

I have NEVER had an issue with 777 and I am now considering switching back.

I simply can’t risk my trip on a gun not going off. So I’m a bit torn.

 

[Schutzhund]

Interesting, I understand the hesitation. This reminds me no matter what powder you shoot. Have you ever checked the flash hole in your breech plug?

I routinely "clean" mine with a drill bit twisted in my fingers. It's a number drill not a fractional size and it makes a world of difference.

 

[Bonasababy]

I have a bunch of 777 pellets left...but while not nearly as bad as pyrodex I had some problems with 2nd shots in the field, barrel is pretty tight hard to reload a 2nd shot. Been told to try white hots....

 

[shannerdrake]

BH209 is widely considered to give the highest velocities and by far the cleanest burn, but it will not reliably ignite with standard primers. In my experience, it requires a 209 Magnum for consistent ignition.

Not just 209 Magnum ignition, but magnum primers and specially designed breach plugs for consistent ignition. That being said, you are spot on. If you can get your gun setup for it, it has no equals.

 

[shannerdrake]

I just picked up my new 45 caliber inline yesterday.

Growing up I have always used Goes black powder.
Alas, now finding actual black powder to buy just isn't going to happen.
Aside from making my own.

So looking at substitutes, which is a better choice?
I really didn't care for Pyrodex. Corrosive.

What is your intended use? Are you planning on just shooting once (maybe twice) as season? Are you hunting on your back 40 or carrying it for days in the backcountry?

I ask, because it makes a difference. 777 is fast and stupid easy to ignite, but it will suck up water. If you are just using it for a couple evening sits for local whitetails, it is plenty good. You will have to deal with some spit patches or bench cleanings when you are sighting in, but other than that it is good to go. It is NOT something you can leave in your gun for a week or two and I wouldn't trust it after a rainstorm. I have shot some really good groups with 777.

If you want the absolute best and most consistent and fast (sometimes not as fast as 777, but darn close), BH209 is the ticket. IF you are willing to go through a little dance at the beginning to make sure your gun has the right breach plug and you have the right primers. I have strung together multiple 10 shot strings with BH209 without a single problem or spit patch or anything. I also had a 5 shot string that only had an 18FPS spread on the chorono....that's better than most premium factory ammo. You will also need a jeweler's or reloader's scale because BH209 should NOT be measured by volume if you want any kind of consistency. That consistency will/does theoretically lead to smaller groups and if you are wanting a very accurate, consistent, and longer range ML, BH209 is your best choice.

Also, if you are not able to clean the gun or have to sit through rain or need to trust the load to work days after you loaded, BH209 wins again. It will not absorb moisture. I have sat through some insane rain and had BH209 go boom every time. I actually was reloading to track an elk (thankfully it was dead already, but didn't know it) in a downpour and i actually tipped the barrel down and water ran out of the barrel. I loaded it with BH209 and it still went boom when I discharged that round.

Sorry for the long post, but the details matter, and you asked. Happy shooting!

 

[Schutzhund]

I just picked up my new 45 caliber inline yesterday.

Growing up I have always used Goes black powder.
Alas, now finding actual black powder to buy just isn't going to happen.
Aside from making my own.

So looking at substitutes, which is a better choice?
I really didn't care for Pyrodex. Corrosive.

What did you get exactly for a ML?

 

[Encore]

With BH, you must use the magnum 209 primers. Some get away with Win209's and Cheddite primers, but Western and now Hodgdon have always recommended magnum primers. CCI209M or Federal 209A.
You .... MUST .... clean the flash channel of carbon. If you don't HF, DF, and poor accuracy will occur. With most breech plugs a 1/8" drill bit TURNED BY HAND, will chip out the carbon buildup. Cleaning itself WILL NOT eliminate the carbon buildup.



Although BH is expensive, it is the choice of long range competitors. It's the winningest substitute propellant in organized competitions.

 

[BrentD]

I just picked up my new 45 caliber inline yesterday.

Growing up I have always used Goes black powder.
Alas, now finding actual black powder to buy just isn't going to happen.
Aside from making my own.

So looking at substitutes, which is a better choice?
I really didn't care for Pyrodex. Corrosive.

What do you mean finding black powder is not going to happen? You can order it delivered to your door with your phone faster than I can type this. There are dozens of dealers.