Bitterroot lion study

[tjones]

http://www.ravallirepublic.com/news/local/article_bc0c6614-78d7-11e3-9b97-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[mdunc8]

That's a pile of cats...

 

[Gerald Martin]

It would be interesting to know the approximate density of cats per square mile. That does seem like a lot of lions.

 

[BuzzH]

I heard this press release was coming this past November...and what it would say.

That Bitterrot study, pretty well proves whats going on in the Blackfoot. Parallels exactly whats going on there as well...huge reduction in cat harvest, huge increase in cat populations and fewer deer/elk.

But, the wolves ate all the elk?

I just hope the MTFWP is able to get the cat harvest back to where it was prior to this permit only, trophy cat, disaster.

 

[belly-deep]

I just hope the MTFWP is able to get the cat harvest back to where it was prior to this permit only, trophy cat, disaster.

Who wants to run hounds when the wolves tear them up?

Increasing cat harvest may be tougher than issuing more tags.

 

[muleguy]

Like I said before, if one male lion eats over 10,000lb/year-that's a big pile of rabbits.

 

[Sytes]

Like I said before, if one male lion eats over 10,000lb/year-that's a big pile of rabbits.

28 lbs each and every day is more a big pile of dodo!

Seems a much more defined study vs estimates of the past. I hope this DNA method expands.

 

[sweetnectar]

Wow! Some cool findings.
Now I wonder how and if the biology will be used/ignored.

 

[----]

I heard this press release was coming this past November...and what it would say.

That Bitterrot study, pretty well proves whats going on in the Blackfoot. Parallels exactly whats going on there as well...huge reduction in cat harvest, huge increase in cat populations and fewer deer/elk.

But, the wolves ate all the elk?

I just hope the MTFWP is able to get the cat harvest back to where it was prior to this permit only, trophy cat, disaster.

I think it's all of region 2, everywhere they turned in to a 'trophy unit' for lions. The lower Clark fork is crawling with lions right now.

Belly-deep, you really don't think there's enough houndsmen to fill those tags? I've been seeing guys out everyday I've been out this winter, all in wolf spots. Pretty sure the guys that lost the dogs last year are back at it too.

My impression I get from the local houndsmen is that most of them won't acknowledge that there's an abundance of cats so they hardly ever kill any. Out of one side of their mouth they claim fish and game is lying about the numbers trying to shift the blame off wolves, then the other side they're bragging about treeing 30-40 lions a winter.

 

[jryoung]

What has been the take of cats in recent years with the permit only program? Has it mostly been mature toms?

I'm curious if the high cat numbers jive with the data from WSUs Large Carnivore Lab results noting that when there is an absence of dominate males and an abundance of adolescents that cat densities increase.

http://environment.wsu.edu/facilities/carnivore/CougarMaps.html

 

[Ben Lamb]

What's been the elk response to reduced opportunity over the last few years?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

jr,

I can only speak from anecdotal evidence and observations over the years, but yes, houndsmen tend to target the older males. Some houndsmen are so neurotic over it that they will threaten to kick another hunter's ass if they kill a female cat.

 

[jryoung]

Probably a really dumb question, but why would one houndsman care if another kills a female? Wouldn't that mean their tag is punched and one more tom out there for the other guy? Or is there a total cat take quota restriction and a female counts towards it?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Couple of reasons, usually there is a female subquota (i.e. total unit quota of 7, female subquota of 3) so it can close a unit early. Also, more females = more cats.

 

[tjones]

Here the quotas are separate. i.e. quota of 10, male 6, sub quota female 4.

If the 4 females get killed the male stays open.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I can tell you that the research from WSU has not been very well received here in Washington. The science is somewhat counterintuitive, in that they basically say kill fewer lions to maintain a lower density and decrease human/lion conflicts. Time will tell how this philosphy plays out as the DFW here has adopted this into their cougar management strategy.

Of course, we here in Washington also think Lobowatch is the gospel and Randy is an anti-hunter

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...entControl/BugleArticles/WashingtonLions.aspx

http://news.cahnrs.wsu.edu/2012/09/...blems-and-overharvest-maintain-ample-hunting/

http://environment.wsu.edu/facilities/carnivore/pdf/Lambert.pdf

 

[MontanaWild]

The problem is that some of these cat hunters only care about their reputation amongst other cat hunters and will tree 20-30 cats before shooting one if that. I've seen guys that will go out and tree cats till the general tags are open for some of these trophy units and not take guys with them that drew tags. Why, I don't really know. And from what I've heard from most hunters is they won't shoot females. For me it seems dumb. Tree a mature cat and fill your tag. If you enjoy hunting them so much take other hunters and help fill the quotas. I don't think you could ever really put the hurt on a cat population with hounds in a lot of these areas with few roads.

 

[belly-deep]

Catch and release hunting doesn't work as well for cats as it does trout I guess

 

[tjones]

Catch and release hunting doesn't work as well for cats as it does trout I guess

The 4 Bitterrot HD's filled out last season, both male and female