Advertisement

Bigger deal with the devil

Lostagain

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
483
Location
MT
Everytime there is an action there WILL be a reaction.
http://www.missoulian.com/display/inn_features/outdoors/od01.txt
Deal with the devil

By DARYL GADBOW of the Missoulian

Organization seeking ways to preserve resident hunting rights, while handling demand for commercial out-of-state access

"We cut a deal with the devil," says Jim Posewitz of Helena, executive director of the hunting rights and ethics organization Orion: The Hunter's Institute, and author of "Inherit the Hunt" and "Beyond Fair Chase" - the bibles of hunting ethics in Montana.
The devil, says Posewitz, is commercialization of wildlife and hunting.
And the deal is the outfitter-sponsored "set-aside" big-game hunting licenses that Montana sells to out-of-state hunters through outfitters at a variable, market-based price. The revenue from sales of the outfitter-sponsored nonresident deer and elk combination licenses - nearly $5 million was projected in 2002 - is the bulk of the money used since 1996 to fund the state's extremely popular Block Management Program.
The Block Management Program pays private landowners to allow free public access for hunting.
The question facing Montana now, according to Posewitz, is: Has the time come to pay the devil his due?
"It's probably the most important question of our times," he says. "It's hugely important that we respond appropriately."
Speaking at a Missoula meeting of the Montana Wildlife Federation last week, Posewitz said that organization of hunters and anglers is concerned about "a litany of threats" of commercialization and privatization currently facing Montana's tradition of public hunting and wildlife management.
Some of the concern arises from a recent decision by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that struck down Arizona's limits on big-game licenses to out-of-state hunters as an act of "overt discrimination." The San Francisco-based court added that such discrimination was an unconstitutional restriction on interstate commerce for hunters wanting to sell antlers and other game animal parts.
Montana is one of at least 23 states other than Arizona that impose limits on the number of nonresident hunting licenses. And Montana is one of 22 states that are asking the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn its ruling against Arizona.
The 9th Circuit ruling "wouldn't necessarily apply to Montana immediately," said Bob Lane, chief legal counsel for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, "because we have a Supreme Court decision from 1978 that found our limit on the number of elk hunters and the higher price (for out-of-state licenses) was constitutionally valid."
However, Posewitz points out, that 1978 Supreme Court decision was based on the "equal rights" provisions of the U.S. Constitution, not on the interstate commerce section.
One hundred years ago, Posewitz says, Montana, along with the rest of the country, was nearly devoid of wildlife.
"We had stripped the country clean," he says.
Led by President Teddy Roosevelt, says Posewitz, and with the strong backing of the nation's hunters and anglers, a conservation ethic was born that brought wildlife back to the abundance we see today.
The somewhat revolutionary idea that wildlife is a public resource was a key tenet of that successful conservation movement, he adds.
In the 1978 Supreme Court ruling upholding Montana's authority to discriminate against nonresident hunters, the state prevailed in its argument that Montana has an abundant wildlife resource because its residents have made sacrifices to protect the habitat on which the wildlife depends.
Important points in the court's 1978 decision, according to Posewitz, were that the state owns the wild animals within its borders and holds them in trust for its citizens; the state can limit hunting to protect its wildlife resources; there is no fundamental right for all people to hunt for sport; and that elk are not and never will be hunted commercially.
A retired FWP wildlife biologist, Posewitz argued within the department in 1993 against the proposal to have market-based pricing for out-of-state big-game hunting licenses because he believed it could "undermine the court's ruling."
"Outfitter set-aside licenses clearly is commerce," says Posewitz. "Now the 9th Circuit ruling jeopardizes our resident hunting rights. My argument may not be that simple. But it's a dangerous, dangerous thing to be doing."
Like any deal offered by the devil, the attractions are great, he adds. In this case, the reward is more than 8 million acres of private land opened to public hunting access in 2002 through FWP's Block Management Program.
"Yes," says Posewitz, "I thought it was attractive then (in 1995) and I think it is now. Now the most important thing we can do to preserve our resident hunting rights is to purge the commerce from our hunting that's come in the last 20 years."
One unforeseen consequence of the outfitter set-aside licenses has been an increase of outfitter leases of private land for exclusive hunting rights of their clients, taking lands out of the Block Management Program, and denying public access to publicly owned wildlife.
Those leasing practices threaten to make hunting a sport only available to the wealthy and privileged, says David Stalling of Missoula, a Montana Wildlife Federation member who is trying to reactivate a Missoula chapter of the organization.
The MWA is introducing legislation this session in the Montana Legislature that would require nonresident hunters who purchase the outfitter-sponsored set-aside licenses to hunt on public lands, according to Craig Sharpe, executive director of the federation.
The legislation, Sharpe says, "might inhibit private leasing by taking the outfitter out of the equation."
Some sportsmen, including some elements of the MWA, favored repealing the nonresident outfitter-sponsored set-aside licenses altogether, says Stalling. So the proposed legislation is a compromise, he says.
The legislation that created the Block Management Program and the variable priced nonresident outfitter-sponsored set-aside licenses will sunset in 2006, according to Allan Charles, director of FWP's Landowner/Sportsman Relations. The 2005 Legislature will review the programs and decide whether to continue them.
"Jim's (Posewitz's) point is well taken," says Charles. "But you have to go back to 1995, with all the competing interests struggling to work together. Prior to this there was no free-market. Outfitters had to compete based on the license drawings. It was a crap shoot. There was no guarantee they'd have clients. So outfitters often would have to tie up a maximum amount of land in leases in case all their clients were drawn for permits. So there was a negative impact on public access.
"I think we in the department, when we try to craft an access program, we find one-size-fits-all doesn't work. Some landowners and some outfitters want to allow some limited outfitter hunting. I think there are some win-win situations out there. I don't think we've explored all the options."
In Montana's appeal of the 9th Circuit decision, Brian Morris, Montana's state solicitor, said the decision threatens the ability of the state to "conserve, promote and develop wildlife populations within their borders."
The ruling that Arizona's limits on out-of-state big-game licenses are an unconstitutional restriction on interstate commerce conflicts with numerous other court decisions, Morris said. He said the court's logic "runs squarely into a long line of cases holding that recreational hunting does not qualify as interstate commerce and that wildlife does not constitute an article of commerce."
But as long as we risk making deals with the devil, says Posewitz, by allowing commercialization or privatization of wildlife, Montana's long heritage of public hunting and public wildlife management could be placed in jeopardy.
"We have to keep rallying if we want to pass this on to coming generations," Posewitz says. "Managing wildlife as a noncommercial public resource is a very recent experiment in history. So it's pretty fragile. It can only persist as long as we keep standing up for the principle."
 
Well now. That's an interesting turn of events. Looks like the Outfitters are going to suffer a setback. It will be interesting to see how this comes out.

cool.gif
 
Danr, I wouldnt bet on the outfitters in Montana suffering any setback. They arent a complacent, laid back, dust off the rifle once a year type people...unlike 99 percent of the hunters in the U.S.

They get their way because they organize and put pressure on the right people, they attend meetings, etc.

Now, if even 10 percent of the hunters were that active in hunting issues, there would be major changes in the right direction.

I'd bet nothing changes, but as a Montana NR hunter or a potential NR hunter, I'd write the commission and tell them to do away with the outfitter sponsored licenses, it really takes away from the do-it-yourself type people. I'd be willing to split the available tags 50-50 but it isnt even close to that now, the outfitters get the lions share.
 
Thats because "everyone" is convinced that elk hunting is so hard that they have to have an outfitter. Its just too hard for them to do it without a guide. Look at all these boards, look at the ads, it's all over.... gotta have a guide...what a bunch of bull. Nobody needs a guide for elk, but anymore just need one to get access to the land.
 
"I think we in the department, when we try to craft an access program, we find one-size-fits-all doesn't work. Some landowners and some outfitters want to allow some limited outfitter hunting. I think there are some win-win situations out there. I don't think we've explored all the options."

Maybe they'll come up with something, keep an open mind.

Anybody got a web page for what the Arizona case thinks interstate commerce violations are?

I would think a lot of the interstate commerce might be motel rooms, restaurant meals, vehicle gas, air travel, just a guide, that's commerce, etc., other things like those expenditures of out of state hunters.

Thanks for the post.
 
Personally, I'd rather see the State regulatory agencies get out of the "reserved allotment" business and just concentrate on issuing licenses. If they want to issue land owner tags, that's a matter for regional decisions. I believe that the practice of reserving tags for outfitters is extremely unfair. Especially since it cuts in to the number of tags available overall. I believe the practice is preferencial and descriminatory toward the general public.

cool.gif
 
This is the same sort of crap Wyoming has with nonres hunters need an outfitter to hunt the wilderness.
 
LA, you're 110 percent correct on that.

Montana should lose its guaranteed outfitter licenses and Wyoming should lose the wilderness guide requirement. Both are equally ridiculous.
 
Landowner or outfitter licenses are ridiculous. All they do is take away opportunities from those that aren't fortunate enough to own land and can't afford to pay to hunt.

Case in point:
This winter the DOW decided to designate a portion of turkey licenses in some areas as "private land only" starting this year. The reasoning was that landowners were having a hard time drawing tags. Talk about catering to landowners instead of hunters in general! Do you really think those landowners want to hunt the turkeys themselves? Maybe some of them, but most of them will be advertising access for a fee, I guarantee it. And guess what. If you can afford to pay to hunt, you're going to have a much better chance of drawing a tag.

Here's my favorite quote from the story, as well as the link if you're interested.

“Our intent all along was to add more turkey hunting opportunity, not restrict it,” said Larry Budde, the Colorado Division of Wildlife’s area wildlife manager in Brush. “What we did is put in a second hunt in each of the units, but the licenses are not valid on state wildlife areas. That basically made that turkey license valid only on private land in those units. There are so many state wildlife areas in this area that landowners were finding it difficult to draw a license to hunt on their own property.”

Full story here

Oak
 
The only way it will stop is if the market goes away. If people wouldn't pay then the market to charge would not be there, just pissing in the wind tho, cause someone will pay to get an advantage to get the "big" one.
 
There was a bill one of the state legislatures, that was discussed on this forum some time ago. That bill would issue landowner tags to the landowner for his own use or that of his family only. It precluded the possibility of selling the tag to a second party for resale. Does anyone remember that?
cool.gif
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
113,565
Messages
2,025,295
Members
36,233
Latest member
Dadzic
Back
Top