Biden Plan to End Online Ammo Sales

[VikingsGuy]

View attachment 145403

As revised and re-written in the 1950's . . .

 

[Nick87]

If I ever waive my 2A rights you can expect a large shipment. But of course let's not forget an important legal disclaimer, "being educated on the history and jurisprudence of the 2A rather than reciting an NRA flier created sometime after 1975 SHALL NOT be deemed a waiver of my 2A rights, nor shall expressing an understanding of the positions of those with whom I may disagree."

[and for context, I am actually an NRA member - all be it, one that thinks they need new leadership and fewer emails asking for more money]

Nothing to do with the NRA, stopped giving them my money a while back.

 

[LWC55]

Regarding the 25, feel free to google it - I am not your librarian assistant.

As for WW2, during WW2 the 2A did not provide a private right to bear arms - so the sacrifice of our grandfathers did the work of freedom without its protection. And for history buffs, Gandhi (a Hindi anarchist) brought more people into democracy than our Founding Fathers or our grandfathers.

Figured you wouldn't be too proud of that list you referenced. What gave our grandfathers the right to bear arms if not 2A? How many democracies existed before WWI?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Nothing to do with the NRA, stopped giving them my money a while back.

I know, just used it to point out I like my guns and constitutional rights as much as the next red blooded American. It's the firearms equivalent of saying "I have black friends" during a discussion on racial inequality.

 

[noharleyyet]

Nothing to do with the NRA, stopped giving them my money a while back.

I sent them some dough for you and vGuy....and a few old wide ties I had in the back of the closet.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Figured you wouldn't be too proud of that list you referenced.

It's a fine list, I just didn't feel like helping the lazy.

What gave our grandfathers the right to bear arms if not 2A?

First, of all the bearing of arms in WW2 were done while serving in the military so gun rights/gun control and the 2A had nothing to do with it. Second, our grandfather's had hunting rifles and "home security" shotguns because there were no laws against them doing so - no laws, no need to invoke the 2A. No one in the US in 1942 thought the 2A had any bearing on whether grandpa Pete had a double barrel shotgun by the front door. It was also well decided that it was constitutional for the government to require an NFA stamp if Ole' Pete wanted a tommy gun. Which presents an interesting question, how could we possibly have prevailed in WW2 with a ban on automatic weapons and short barreled weapons for personal use in place and deemed constitutional at the time?

How many democracies existed before WWI?

There was little increase after WW1. The biggest increases after WW2 had to do with the British Empire being dismantled without US involvement.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Nothing to do with the NRA, stopped giving them my money a while back.

When Bush Sr. dropped his life membership, that was a clue for me.

It's a fine list, I just didn't feel like helping the lazy.


First, of all the bearing of arms in WW2 were done while serving in the military so gun rights/gun control and the 2A had nothing to do with it. Second, our grandfather's had hunting rifles and "home security" shotguns because there were no laws against them doing so - no laws, no need to invoke the 2A. No one in the US in 1942 thought the 2A had any bearing on whether grandpa Pete had a double barrel shotgun by the front door. It was also well decided that it was constitutional for the government to require an NFA stamp if Ole' Pete wanted a tommy gun. Which presents an interesting question, how could we possibly have prevailed in WW2 with a ban on automatic weapons and short barreled weapons for personal use in place and deemed constitutional at the time?


There was little increase after WW1. The biggest increases after WW2 had to do with the British Empire being dismantled without US involvement.

damn facts...

This certainly has been an enlightening and interesting discussion.

 

[Doublegunner]

I understand the different interpretations. But to think that our founders only meant for state militias to have the right to bear arms and that the word people means government (The people = the state i.e. Colorado) is a ludicrous interpretation in my opinion.

The bill of rights is generally considered to be individual rights. It seems to strain logic to assert that the 2nd amendment was a state's right.

 

[sharpshooter97]

Born free and gonna die free, don't care what any politician of any party has to say, they're all corrupt and out for their own interests. I've said it before and I'll say it again criminals don't follow gun laws and it doesn't make it any harder for them to be armed, more laws just fuel the black market. I'll keep my guns, as you can see with the current situation the government sure as hell won't come to help when you need it.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The bill of rights is generally considered to be individual rights. It seems to strain logic to assert that the 2nd amendment was a state's right.

The 10th Amendment (part of the bill of rights) explicitly reserves right to the states and to the people, so to see both also present in the 2nd is hardly a non sequitur.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Born free and gonna die free

Both true - and so is the fact that neither has any practical connection to the 2A during that lifetime. And are you saying our friends in Canada and Finland are not free?

 

[sharpshooter97]

Both true - and so is the fact that neither has any practical connection to the 2A during that lifetime. And are you saying our friends in Canada and Finland are not free?

What practical connection does Canada and Finland have to the 2A in the US?

 

[LWC55]

damn facts...

This certainly has been an enlightening and interesting discussion.

What "facts"? That the 2A had no bearing on citizen gun ownership until 2008? That it was just some obscure state right that let us have a national guard? Or the "fact" that the US played little to no role in democracy around the world. Those are opinions that may match yours. That doesn't make em facts.

 

[VikingsGuy]

What practical connection does Canada and Finland have to the 2A in the US?

Just saying your free life does not have to be defined by the 2A. Billions of people live free lives without it. I was just selecting 2 countries with HT connections that have both freedom and lack a 2A.

Again, I am pro 2A, I am pro personal right to bear arms according to Heller, I am pro US, but if we are going to win this argument over the long haul we are going to have to do a whole lot better than the muddled sense of history, law and freedom that pops up every time this topic is discussed. A partially mythological recollection of American exceptionalism is not carrying water any more. Better to talk about the safety guns provide to women and minorities, the history of gun control in the 70's being used to control black activists, an evolving sense of personal rights under the constitution over the last 70 years (such as Skinner, Griswold, etc) that make Heller perfectly logical in a modern reading, embracing simple frameworks such as universal background checks that have greater than 75% support by gun owners while resisting the overly burdensome ammo regulations and failed handgun control attempts, etc.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Or the "fact" that the US played little to no role in democracy around the world.

Absolutely not what I said if you retain context, but you continue to misquote and misconstrue in any conversation you disagree with so feel free to carry on.

 

[sharpshooter97]

Just saying your free life does not have to be defined by the 2A. Billions of people live free lives without it. I was just selecting 2 countries with HT connections that have both freedom and lack a 2A.

Again, I am pro 2A, I am pro personal right to bear arms according to Heller, I am pro US, but if we are going to win this argument over the long haul we are going to have to do a whole lot better than the muddled sense of history, law and freedom that pops up every time this topic is discussed. A partially mythological recollection of American exceptionalism is not carrying water any more. Better to talk about the safety guns provide to women and minorities, the history of gun control in the 70's being used to control black activists, an evolving sense of personal rights under the constitution over the last 50 years (such as Skinner, Griswold, etc) that make Heller perfectly logical in a modern reading, embracing simple frameworks such as universal background checks that have greater than 75% support by gun owners while resisting the overly burdensome ammo regulations and failed handgun control attempts, etc.

I wasn't saying anyone in a country outside the US isn't free. If anything it's a mentality as there are certainly areas of the US people live in that they are just fine with living off the government. Just stating a personal opinion that regardless of who says what or who gets elected I will keep on with my life. I really know anyone outside the US but I'm sure there's people who feel the same regardless of where they live

 

[Losing_Sanity]

A nice couple forced to exercise their 2A Rights just the other day. This is one reason why we have the 2A and why it'll never be infringed.

Thanks for sharing...

 

[LWC55]

Absolutely not what I said if you retain context, but you continue to misquote and misconstrue in any conversation you disagree with so feel free to carry on.

True, your quote was without US involvement. I added little to no.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

I agree. Both of y'all have me going to my dictionary way more than needed. Y'all havin a fancy word contest?

^^^ Me too!

 

[Nick87]

I'll say one thing 339 posts n counting and this has been pretty damn civil.