I think it would require left over tags, if the west is any indication. There is no "tanked" on private and fwp doesn't care 1 bit about population on public.
Ballot Initiative to End NR Big Game Hunting?
- Thread starter BenInMT
- Start date
I hunted an elk tag in Idaho while a general 2 point mule deer season was open. It was incredible the amount of deer hunters lined up to do it. It will never get bad enough to keep people from coming, there will always be the dream of killing the last fork horn that stumbles on to the public.
BenInMT
Well-known member
Duh, factory loads using only the data published on the box to confirm trajectory. Dial and shoot 1000 yds for the first time ever, at an elk.
In all fairness they at least didn’t run their season through the entire rut though. Those 2 points had more of a chance than Montana 2 points now days.
SwaggyD
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2022
- Messages
- 1,699
Rut = more neck roasts!!
When I was a kid hunting with my dad we would run into other hunters in the field that would shoot the whole herd of mule deer. Some residents and some nonresident. The regs were 2 deer either sex. This was around 1970, I don't see where hunters have changed that much. Where hunters hunt has changed a lot. Technology has changed a lot. The amount of game on public has changed tremendously.
Eric Albus
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,680
If this is the best idea of the day, go back to bed and hibernate for at least a month. Pray for an epiphany
bayoublaster7527
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2017
- Messages
- 475
Are we really this far gone? Somebody get this man a snickers bar!
Interesting comments that got put in the Billings Gazette from you and bigshooter on the 454 program hopefully that was the lowlights and not the highlights.
SwaggyD
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2022
- Messages
- 1,699
Council ponders modifications to landowner elk tag program following its popularity last year
A state advisory council is being asked to help clean up the language and narrow definitions for a statute that provides free either-sex elk permits to landowners in return for
Thank you for posting that.Council ponders modifications to landowner elk tag program following its popularity last year
A state advisory council is being asked to help clean up the language and narrow definitions for a statute that provides free either-sex elk permits to landowners in return forbillingsgazette.com
If the public land hunter would just fall in line we could get some meaningful elk killing done in Montana
BuzzH
Well-known member
That's exactly what I thought after reading that as well.
I think the OP's idea is fabulous. A NR applicant pays ~$690/annually to MT FWP to accumulate points (PP/BP) for 7 species (D/E/A/M/S/G/Bison). That is total out of pocket after the 80% refund on the big game combo tag. The sub $20/species that residents pay will not have to go up all that much to offset that shortfall.
The NRs with significant MT points will whine for a little while - but eventually they will realize MT did them a favor because $690/year was a terrible value proposition for the miniscule MT NR draw odds on a hunt worth traveling for.
I thought the ~$150/year I send to Utah DWR for all species was a raw deal for the draw odds provided. But after looking at the $690 deal in MT, I think Utah is a steal.
The NRs with significant MT points will whine for a little while - but eventually they will realize MT did them a favor because $690/year was a terrible value proposition for the miniscule MT NR draw odds on a hunt worth traveling for.
I thought the ~$150/year I send to Utah DWR for all species was a raw deal for the draw odds provided. But after looking at the $690 deal in MT, I think Utah is a steal.
You guys have to search for the "Dunning-Krueger Effect" on Youtube and watch all the videos associated with it. In a nutshell, first, 75% of the people out there are incompetent, second, they make incompetent decisions, and third, when confronted about their incompetent decisions, they deny it!!
We are getting migrants from Delaware, CT, Mass, VT, NH, NY, PA, WI, MN, MI that come down here and try to change things to the shthole they left. They say they are Republicans fleeing these liberal bastions. My nephew told me a Republican is just somebody that abides by the speed limit with socialism and govt. Basically they just tap the brakes when govt/socialism gets moving too fast. They don't tell them to get the hell out, we don't need ya. They are just as much control freaks as the left.
Food For Thought. I don't know what the answer is. Just Leave Me Alone.
Cornbread.
We are getting migrants from Delaware, CT, Mass, VT, NH, NY, PA, WI, MN, MI that come down here and try to change things to the shthole they left. They say they are Republicans fleeing these liberal bastions. My nephew told me a Republican is just somebody that abides by the speed limit with socialism and govt. Basically they just tap the brakes when govt/socialism gets moving too fast. They don't tell them to get the hell out, we don't need ya. They are just as much control freaks as the left.
Food For Thought. I don't know what the answer is. Just Leave Me Alone.
Cornbread.
Eric Albus
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,680
Only 75%, me thinks you’re generous.
Scott85
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2018
- Messages
- 3,004
No NR big game hunting should equal to no resident big game hunting on federal land in that state.
Eric Albus
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,680
Scott, if that happened the public could at least wildlife watch on accessible lands.
Well there's 18 pages and over an hour of my life that I'll never get back...
So let's get to the root of things- is there a problem with the mule deer and elk hunting in Montana? Y/N?
If no, end of conversation.
If YES (which seems to be the overwhelming majority opinion), WHAT makes you think there is a problem? Number of animals killed? Size of animals killed? Individual success rates? Hunter days it takes to kill an animal? Hunter days it takes to kill a big animal?
If FWP won't deal with the problem, then we have to force them to admit there is a problem first. Baby steps- you don't furnish a house before the roof is on.
So once we get them to acknowledge that there is a problem (success rates or age class compared to damn near any other mule deer state, long-term population declines, etc.), THEN we bring in the data to publicly hammer them with facts- PUBLICLY. Meaning go to meetings, hold their feet to the flames. And you also have to call out those who want kneejerk reactions (blaming the minority 12% hunters that are NR) that won't solve the root of the problem (populations suck because residents have killed unsustainable numbers of accessible deer and pushed the remainder to inaccessible places through long seasons and overallocating tags).
We're at a crossroads. If you just want to hike with a rifle, then by all means- keep throwing a toddler tantrum, blame the NR, and maintain the status quo. You'll be looking for something else to blame in 3 years, tops. But if you want something out there to actually hunt in years to come, then it's time to grow up & accept the reality of the current pitiful situation and the downward trends seen in this state over the last 30 years, and work to effect some meaningful change.
So let's get to the root of things- is there a problem with the mule deer and elk hunting in Montana? Y/N?
If no, end of conversation.
If YES (which seems to be the overwhelming majority opinion), WHAT makes you think there is a problem? Number of animals killed? Size of animals killed? Individual success rates? Hunter days it takes to kill an animal? Hunter days it takes to kill a big animal?
If FWP won't deal with the problem, then we have to force them to admit there is a problem first. Baby steps- you don't furnish a house before the roof is on.
So once we get them to acknowledge that there is a problem (success rates or age class compared to damn near any other mule deer state, long-term population declines, etc.), THEN we bring in the data to publicly hammer them with facts- PUBLICLY. Meaning go to meetings, hold their feet to the flames. And you also have to call out those who want kneejerk reactions (blaming the minority 12% hunters that are NR) that won't solve the root of the problem (populations suck because residents have killed unsustainable numbers of accessible deer and pushed the remainder to inaccessible places through long seasons and overallocating tags).
We're at a crossroads. If you just want to hike with a rifle, then by all means- keep throwing a toddler tantrum, blame the NR, and maintain the status quo. You'll be looking for something else to blame in 3 years, tops. But if you want something out there to actually hunt in years to come, then it's time to grow up & accept the reality of the current pitiful situation and the downward trends seen in this state over the last 30 years, and work to effect some meaningful change.
Eric Albus
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,680
#1.. unequivocal yes. In general season areas
#2. Harvest rates for elk are dismal.
If you want to shoot 2 yr old md/wt and call that success, well it’s your decision
FWP has to restrict numbers of ppl on accessible land.
Your pt of R hunters having killed “everything” is appropriate. Go to a mest
Locker last week season and see number of immature md killed by R hunters to “fill my tag”.
Very few R hunters will “let’em go to grow” and nearly 0 NR “diy” will let them go
Similar threads
