Ballot Initiative to End NR Big Game Hunting?

[Hem]

It all boils down to money.
F & G is desperate to milk non resident hunters. I see our natural resources stressed at ALL levels when it comes to recreation, hunting,fishing etc etc.
Sales tax..make money from everybody.
Raise resident hunting fees. Eliminate all the bullshit gift tags. Pick your weapon, pick your unit. Cap nr quotas. Shorten seasons.
Eliminate property taxes in a rapidly growing environment.
Everybody pays to play.

 

[BirdManMike]

Montanans accepting a loss of opportunity is the only thing that is going to help, be it choosing a district, region, weapon, whatever. This can be applied to non-residents, also, but solely applying restrictions to the NA is not going to help.

The out of state 5th wheels parked all season is solely an issue with your perception. You see these out of states plates and somehow feel outrage but are also blind to the absolute fact there is 10x the pressure from Montanans. It may not be the same Montanan(s) each and every day as it is the guy with a 5th wheel, but the combined resident hunter effort is still much greater.

 

[BlazerBeam]

Montanans accepting a loss of opportunity is the only thing that is going to help, be it choosing a district, region, weapon, whatever. This can be applied to non-residents, also, but solely applying restrictions to the NA is not going to help.

The out of state 5th wheels parked all season is solely an issue with your perception. You see these out of states plates and somehow feel outrage but are also blind to the absolute fact there is 10x the pressure from Montanans. It may not be the same Montanan(s) each and every day as it is the guy with a 5th wheel, but the combined resident hunter effort is still much greater.

I am not disagreeing at all. But you have to get buy in somehow from the residents. You can’t just start with 12 weeks of hunting season and in one move squish it down to something that is going to make the big difference to the critters. Whether it’s correct or not who do you think will be blamed for that happening? You think fingers are being pointed at NRs now, what will it look like then? And changes need to be well accepted for them to last. I just figured going at it one step at a time would help that happen. Reductions in opportunity over time will be the answer, not all at once.

 

[BlazerBeam]

The hunt your permit this year for example was a small change that is headed in the right direction

 

[TheJason]

The hunt your permit this year for example was a small change that is headed in the right direction

The sad thing is, folks will view this as a “big sacrifice” for the resource. Yes, it’s good change, but it’s a drop in the bucket.

 

[BenInMT]

Can we just start small with choose your weapon? I have long been a proponent of choose your region, or a new grouping of HDs instead of this free for all that we have now. Most everyone on this forum has a pretty rational view on this. I can’t imagine how these ideas would go over on a Montana hunter Facebook group, you would probably be shouted down and banned in about 5 minutes for even brining it up. I bet you’d find a lot of support for getting rid of NRs though, hah.

 

[DFS]

Can we just start small with choose your weapon? I have long been a proponent of choose your region, or a new grouping of HDs instead of this free for all that we have now. Most everyone on this forum has a pretty rational view on this. I can’t imagine how these ideas would go over on a Montana hunter Facebook group, you would probably be shouted down and banned in about 5 minutes for even brining it up. I bet you’d find a lot of support for getting rid of NRs though, hah.

I’ve thought about it a lot. F it let’s ban nonresidents and extend the season longer. Where do I need to sign.

 

[TheJason]

Can we just start small with choose your weapon? I have long been a proponent of choose your region, or a new grouping of HDs instead of this free for all that we have now. Most everyone on this forum has a pretty rational view on this. I can’t imagine how these ideas would go over on a Montana hunter Facebook group, you would probably be shouted down and banned in about 5 minutes for even brining it up. I bet you’d find a lot of support for getting rid of NRs though, hah.

That because most folks are ignorant enough to believe that’ll solve all their problems.

 

[SwaggyD]

I’ve thought about it a lot. F it let’s ban nonresidents and extend the season longer. Where do I need to sign.

Need my signature? My uncle doesn’t pay taxes. Hunt in Minnesota!

 

[BlakeA]

@BenInMT these "best ideas I've had all day" are fantastic! Please keep them coming. Really looking forward to what you can come up with all on your own for tomorrow's idea

 

[tillicant]

Trying to accomplish a lot of things and this kills a lot of birds with one stone. It’s not punitive. No one is in fact entitled to come to Montana and satisfy their blood thirst on our game.

You should just start your own country, Google it, four easy steps

 

[BlazerBeam]

That because most folks are ignorant enough to believe that’ll solve all their problems.

I don't think you're understanding that a lot of MT folks feel that NR's are their ONLY problem. Again, whether that's correct thinking or not, you've got a gigantic task to convince them otherwise. And telling them what their "real" problems are and that you have the answers is not going to work. NR opportunity will be reduced before any resident opportunity will be. That is my prediction.

But again, as I say all the time, I believe the real problem lies in the fact that MT as a whole has been glamorized and hunting here has been made this bucket list Item for so many people. That has more people interested than can be supported by the animals with the current opportunity. So now we find ourselves at a point that now involves Resident-NR bickering, Landowner entitlement feelings and associated conflicts, and many many more things that are front and center in MT right now. If Elk hunting (and MT in general) wasn't such a hot commodity, many of these problems would seem much smaller. The whole time that these issues are being debated, the youtube videos and subscriptions just keep on fueling the interest. They need to be shut down as A PART of a "fix MT plan". Maybe 2% of Randy's fanclub actually tune into his content on conservation and related issues? Most of them are only interested in the hunting and the "how to" content. I see his, and many others, platforms as strictly a business and an entertainment service. It is doing more harm than good, even if intentions are to do good. I just think that filming and distributing the killing of animals for profit is kind of ridiculous to allow. And its created such a googly-eyed following that is starting to ruin hunting and create more conflict than would exist without them.

 

[MTTW]

After 50 years of basically the same season structure, now we find ourselves at a point where current opportunities can't be maintained. In western Mt we have been at that point for decades. I predict at least another decade of a downward trend before any meaningful changes. The masses don't give a shit.

 

[TheJason]

I don't think you're understanding that a lot of MT folks feel that NR's are their ONLY problem.

No, I completely understand it. Understanding it and calling it bullshit aren’t mutually exclusive. I don’t think you comprehend that.

 

[TheJason]

If Elk hunting (and MT in general) wasn't such a hot commodity, many of these problems would seem much smaller. The whole time that these issues are being debated, the youtube videos and subscriptions just keep on fueling the interest.

This issue started long before social media. We moved there 24 years ago, and it was already in motion.

Regardless of social media, there is not a damned thing preventing MT from implementing wide scale
changes that would markedly improve hunting. But hey, keep hunting like it’s 1950, because that’s exactly what you’re doing.

 

[TheJason]

And telling them what their "real" problems are and that you have the answers is not going to work.

They can believe whatever they want. If they are too ignorant to see reality, then they deserve what they get. Run the ballot initiative. See what it gets. I guarantee it will result in more disappointment as folks try and figure out why their hunting sucks.

So, go ahead. Run with it.

 

[tjones]

Can we just start small with choose your weapon?

Apparently you have not been to any FWP public meeting in say the last 5 years. Any sort of reduction in seasons or opportunities gets the guy mentioning it fried by most everyone in attendance.

 

[brockel]

I also think for mule deer a 4 point antler standard should be implemented.

4point restrictions kill off the good genetics and you end up with old 3 pts that can’t be touched. Only true way is to limit opportunity whether that’s getting rid of general over the counter tag or moving the rifle season out of the rut. Montana’s issue is a growing population of resident general tag holders and a deer population that’s not keeping pace

 

[TheJason]

4point restrictions kill off the good genetics and you end up with old 3 pts that can’t be touched. Only true way is to limit opportunity whether that’s getting rid of general over the counter tag or moving the rifle season out of the rut. Montana’s issue is a growing population of resident general tag holders and a deer population that’s not keeping pace

Direct quote from an FWP wildlife employee:

“We have half the mule deer we did several decades ago, but we still have the same season structure.”

 

[8andcounting]

Direct quote from an FWP wildlife employee:

“We have half the mule deer we did several decades ago, but we still have the same season structure.”

And more resident hunters