Attention: it’s time sportsmen and women listen!

[ElkNuut]

https://helenair.com/opinion/column...cle_fa995eeb-2acc-5d79-90ff-f873da0d8f7b.html



I just came across this article and thought I would share it on this forum. I’m not sure how many of you have heard of the American Prairie Reserve, but I think it’s time the hunting community takes a look at what they are telling the central Montana communities they are going to do and how they are going to do it. One of the most disturbing things about this is that most sponsors (Mystery Ranch) probably do not even know what they are giving money to. I do not live in Bozeman, but I’m sure the lies of the APR are deep. Actually, I just thought, maybe why landowners in Central Montana are hesitant to allow California, 7, 6, 4, RMEF plates access to hunt is because of the chance that that person may be a supporter of the APR.....just a random thought. Take a drive across the 6 county region that surrounds the CMR and take note of how many “Don’t buffalo me,” or “STOP the American Prairie Reserve” banners and stickers you see along highways, on bale beds, in bars, and on kids’ lunch pails at the bus stops! I think if I were a hunting company or had a hunting show (Mr. Newberg.....) that was approached to sponsor or supports a brand that does support a non profit organization, I would do a little research to find out what the local communities think or feel about said organization. I heard Joe Rogan and Ryan Callaghan talking on a pod cast about how “cool” the idea of the APR is, yet they have never been over here and sat down to have some coffee with any of the ranchers over here to hear the reality. After seeing Mysery Ranch as a sponsor to the APRs “Living with Wildlife” workshop in Lewistown, I can assure you I will never take anyone hunting with one of these packs and my Wildland fire pack has already been thrown in the dumpster.
I encourage the hunting community and industry to come on out and see that and how most landowners in Cetral/Eastern Montana do more to work with various partners to enhance, conserve, and protect wildlife and their habitats more that any other wildlife organization in Montana, most of which is on their own time and dollar!

Here is a link to the LWW workshop (put on by APR) and sponsors
https://www.livingwithwildlife.us/about

 

[NoWiser]

That’s an opinion piece, not an article. I see few, if any, factual arguments in it. I have no issue with ranchers or the APR. If they can acquire the private lands necessary to achieve their goals, more power to them.

 

[mtmuley]

https://missoulian.com/news/local/w...cle_417c0019-ece2-5fed-a6f9-d162fc5aedc3.html Here's an article. mtmuley

 

[mtmuley]

https://missoulian.com/news/local/h...cle_8e7af9e2-2a62-5b6f-a71c-fff0548e6159.html Second part. mtmuley

 

[Trial153]

and you joined the forum to share this?

 

[Addicting]

You should of just sent your pack to one of us verses throwing it out.

 

[The Hedgehog]

.....just a random thought.

Everybody is all about private property rights until they can't tell their neighbor what to do. Justus Township was more welcomed?

I live in Bozeman and could care less if somebody doesn't want me hunting on their place because of my license plates, or any other reason, that's their right.

 

[Big Fin]

Since you specifically mention me, I guess I will chime in. As a new member, you might think this is a new discussion here on Hunt Talk. The search function will help you find where APR and associated topics have been discussed many times. And I think you will find my comments below and those of others that might follow to be consistently stated on this forum, long before your post that started this thread.

I was recently at a conference held by a private property group, PERC, that is often touted as the anti-christ by public land advocates. PERC, a private enterprise think tank, used APR as a potential future model of willing-buyer/willing-seller large landscape conservation. APR wasn't there, but a representative of the Koch Foundation was. Are these the lies you speak of?

I drive to Phillips County a few times each month in the summer. When I see the "Don’t buffalo me,” or “STOP the American Prairie Reserve” banners and stickers I wonder what happened to the idea of private property rights, where people can sell to any person/entity they want and that person/entity can do whatever they choose with the property. As I drive by those, I wonder if the 5th Amendment of the Constitution doesn't apply in Phillips County. Last I checked a holder of property, in this case real property, is vested in property rights that are protected by the 5th Amendment. You saying you don't like the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution?

I also think back to the Legislative battles when the agriculture lobby decided it was time to go after bison and bison policy. They sent forth bill after bill, finally getting it passed that in Montana private bison herds and "conservation herds," such as APR's herd, are considered livestock and under the purview of the Montana Department of Livestock. Those bills even went so far as to transfer much of the authority over wild bison to MT Department of Livestock, even though wildlife in MT is normally under the purview of Fish Wildlife and Parks. The APR land acquisition and bison operation is what drew the ire of some, which resulted in those opposed to APR's bison plan using the Legislature to accomplish what they wanted.

I suspect at that time, those wanting bison to be treated as livestock did not predict that an organization that held grazing allotments would ask the BLM to allow them to change their grazing allotment from one form of livestock, cattle, to another form of "livestock," bison. I've never heard a protest when a landowner wanted to convert their grazing allotment from say domestic sheep to cattle; both considered forms of livestock under Montana law. Yet, when a landowner such as APR wants to convert their grazing allotment to a different form of "livestock," in this case from cattle to bison, those same groups who fought so hard to have bison treated as "livestock" under MT law are the ones screaming and yelling.

I don't have any vested interest one way or the other in this discussion. Almost every legislative session I get asked to go to Helena and lobby on bills related to expanding free range bison, but for a variety of reasons I have declined.

In my frequent travels to Phillips County, I think about how hard it must be to scratch out a living in that country, subject to the craziness of manipulated cattle markets and fluctuating production costs. I can see why a lot of the next generation don't want to take over the ranch. It might be a great "lifestyle" job as is often proclaimed. As a CPA who has advised a lot of ag producers I see that raising cattle is not only hard work, but a very risky endeavor on which to stake a financial future.

I suspect those risks and hard operating conditions make the option of selling a more appealing idea when there is nobody to take over the operation. That has been the case for many of my ranch family clients. And if one is going to sell, I suspect they sure as hell would want to cash out at the highest possible price, given how much blood, sweat, and tears it took to create that ranch. If that highest prices comes from a private entity, a government agency, or a non-profit group, it is none of my personal business and as an adviser I am going to tell them to get the best price they can. I hope that seller gets filthy rich and is financially set for the rest of their life. If their neighbors are pissed that they sold to APR or Wilks Brother or (insert name here), too bad.

I had been invited by APR to be on a council they have formed that advises them on the hunting activities on their properties. I had declined, but now that you have raised my awareness that they are spreading so many lies, I think I will call them and ask if I can reconsider.

I did get an email from a different group about the Living With Wildlife seminar in Lewistown, but I had scheduling conflicts. Now I might try to clear my calendar to attend and learn of the lies you speak.

Yeah, in those last two paragraphs I'm being a bit of a smart ass, and with good reason. You come here and make your first post on this topic, acting as though we are all ignorant on this topic and somehow subject to control and influence by a group you don't like, APR. Most of the MT members here have been watching these discussions for years. In your post you provide no rational basis to support your claims, other than the same old claims that comes across as complete hypocrisy when viewed by anyone with even the slightest bias toward property rights and the 5th Amendment, a bias most here hold. Folks here have been around the block enough that your post is not very convincing and if anything, offensive in its implication that we are a bunch of dumbasses with 4, 6, 7, and RMEF license plates blindly following APR. Your post, both in its condescending tone and lack of substance, does little to bring support to your cause.

I won't be attending the LWW seminar in Lewistown. I am going to contact APR and ask to be part of that hunting advisory group. Thanks for the incentive to reconsider.

I get it that people feel their way of life is disappearing. I come from a small logging town that is a remnant of is former self. I've lived that same situation and felt the discomfort that comes with an uncertain future. At that time there was the desire to find someone or some group to blame for the demise of the mill, the jobs, and the way of life that had been built around it. Some targets were selected and became the target of us locals. Yet, in retrospect, the huge change was the culmination of a lot of bigger economic, social, and political factors.

I would not want to be a rancher and face all the uncertainties that exist in that industry. I respect them, admire their commitment to their way of life, and wish them nothing but great success.

I don't care if landowners close their lands to hunting, a threat often used in debates about wildlife topics. I don't have any interest in hunting these private lands. They have enough to do without hunters banging on their doors at all hours of the day, asking permission to hunt. Out of respect for their time, the work they have to do, and their property, I never bang on the door of a landowner. Most hunters I know feel the same way. We focus our efforts on public lands and all the saber rattling to close off more private lands has no impact on us; their land and they should do as they please.

To your point about me and my sponsors, I am very comfortable with Mystery Ranch as a company, the brand they are, and the products they build. Their support of a conference on Living With Wildlife causes me to think even higher of them. I understand if you view it differently.

 

[ElkNuut]

Greenhorn, I agree. I realize I wrote that and completely stereotyped people such as yourself. However, from your posts, I can tell you are a hard worker and very successful Hunter; good on you! It does not appear that you are one that makes a lot of posts about “all the animals all congregated on private land” and “landowners won’t allow access”, etc. Thise are the stereotypes that are typically driving up and down the road looking for the low hanging fruit. I apologize for adding you into this category of “sportsman”

 

[BigHornRam]

I listened to the APR segment on this program a couple weeks ago and found it to be interesting and informative. I try to keep an open mind on issues like this and liked what I heard.

http://www.homegroundradio.org/episodes

 

[mtmiller]

Welcome and thanks for the education.

Tell us a little about yourself.

 

[Magnum Sherpa]

What’s the issue with RMEF plates?

 

[mtmuley]

I spent about 3 weeks out in that country between 2 trips. No problems with my license plates. At least not that I know of. mtmuley

 

[elkduds]

Wait, are you saying there was something in the west before barbed wire? Before wagon tracks? Before Meriwether and William? How long was that older stuff around before the good guys rode in?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I have a couple of friends who work at APR and I can tell you those particular individuals are pro hunting and hunters themselves, I obviously can’t speak for the whole organization. My in-laws have ranched in CO for 5 generations so I am at least aware of the difficulty of scraping out a living ranching. You doing really seem to have particular grips other than the status quo is changing? If you have specific issues with the org I would love to hear them and I will bring them up with my friends and see what they have to say.

 

[JLS]

Nature, evolution and time never go backwards. They always move on to something new. Leaving the prairie without care or management will not bring back the prairies that Lewis and Clark saw.

I wonder what the prairies did before people managed them? I understand if one is opposed to APR, but the premises posed in this Op Ed are ridiculous. Be wary of the deadly rattlesnakes and prickly pear.

 

[onpoint]

I wonder what the prairies did before people managed them? I understand if one is opposed to APR, but the premises posed in this Op Ed are ridiculous. Be wary of the deadly rattlesnakes and prickly pear.

Obviously, you've never been "over here to hear the reality".

 

[npaden]

One funny thing in the opinion piece is the comments about overgrazing causing problems with various weeds. Sounds like the author has some experience with that.

I would bet the APR spends a lot more time and effort on eradication of the weeds mentioned than simply choosing how much that area is getting grazed.

Whatever other arguments you may want to make against the APR, being a poor manager of the land is going to be a hard one to convince most people based on their goals and operating budget.

 

[aaron_a]

How is this any different than any other willing seller/willing buyer arrangement? Land trusts have been doing this for decades, keeping the land in private ownership and allowing public use. I hunted tons of land trust properties when I lived in pittsburgh. People don’t buy big chunks of land and keep them big anymore. It seems like any time a big ranch gets bought it’s either locked up, or parceled out. APRs approach seems like a great idea in a landscape of ever shrinking habitat.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I don't think this is the reception that the OP was expecting.

The signs are from UPOM, the same group that's tried to get test & slaughter of elk in the Paradise valley and the same group that's tried to kill MT's stream access law & Habitat Montana.

UPOM is a dark money organization headed up by GOP lobbyists in Helena. I think I'll pass on their propaganda.