Are we still a Christian nation ?

[Europe]

I want to thank each and every one of you for your posts and for the kindness extended to each other while it was being discussed.

To return to my original post and why I posted the title as I did.

The declaration of independence was written by men whom I believe from independent study to have been men who referred to God, and Creator, as Christians and since the Declaration of Independence mentions God or Creator 5 times, it was my belief that they were referring to the God worshipped by Christians. Not Islam, Buddism, Sikhism, or others.

As others have mentioned I am glad they were wise enough to make sure we had a separation of church and state. We have the right to worship in what ever way we want, what ever religion we want or not at all., without fear of persecution. This is part of what makes America a great nation and I am grateful for their foresight.

Plus if one looks up religions in America. Christianity is still far ahead of all the practiced faiths in America. And the spread ( Christianity, percentage off ) would have been even wider when the Declaration of independence was written

This is why I said "Are we STILL a Christian nation" But perhaps I was wrong.

It was interesting that earlier today a gentlemen who very possibly will not be alive next week, said nothing at the time of the original discussion of the group, but today was asking questions about Jesus and it was my pleasure to attempt to answer them to the best of my ability

Your posts have all been very thoughtful, educational, and appreciated--thank you.

 

[Addicting]

It is at this point that the discussion of what actually makes a person a “Christian”
becomes relevant. Jesus himself said that not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.

This thread sparked this very discussion last night with my wife. We had a very good conversation on what is a Christian In today’s society, compared to when Luther posted his 95 theses. I am going to bring this up to my Pastor this morning as a subject for his Pub Theology.

 

[Nameless Range]

In my opinion, The Problem of Evil as well as The Problem of Divine Hiddenness are both insurmountable problems for any God that requires salvation to be contingent on belief. I don’t think they are defeaters for theism itself, just certain contemporary flavors.

So many have answered the OP that I don’t have anything really novel to add. Like many, I was raised in a Christian household, lost my religion despite desperate analysis and study, and now would consider myself an agnostic who attends church most Sundays. I go because I see value in fellowship and lessons of humility, primarily for my children, and think there is something analogous there for the needs of our country as well.

We should strive to be a country so adhering to wisdom that even if we were 99% Christian, we would not consider ourselves a Christian Nation.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Most language related to God and religion was added after the Second world war in order to distinguish this nation from fascists and communists.

I support solid separation of church and state, but your comment is misleading. Certainly a few items were added in the 50's, but many many extend back to the country's founding. It's in the Declaration of Independence, it has been part of judicial oaths since the Judiciacy Act of 1787, it's in possibly the greatest presidential speech of all time, the Gettysburg Address in the 1863, etc. etc.

No need to rewrite history, the founders already noted the importance of limiting government involvement in religion in the 1st amendment.

 

[VikingsGuy]

A lot of todays push back comes from the in your face evangelicalism that started after the second world war. The idea of being a " Christian nation" stems from that rhetoric. As happens with many push backs it tends to swing to extream of whats its pushing against.
For my part I feel that a healthy separation of religion and goverment is good thing.

I agree. The US has gone through cycles of "revivals", with the evangelical movement of the 80's being one of the more recent. The pendulum swings, it is swinging away from christianity for now, will likely swing back in time. I wish we could spend more time in the mutually respectful middle than lurching to either extreme (and this seems a challenge with many other topics as well) - but that seems hard for people over the centuries.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

As for me and my house, we serve the Lord.

Same here,
Matt

 

[SAJ-99]

...the importance of limiting government involvement in religion...

This idea has been posted a few times on this thread. I think the founders wanted to prevent both the Government's involvement in religion and religions' involvement in government. The two probably lead to a similar result, but I think there is a subtle difference in the views. Today, I often hear claims of "religion/christianity being under attack", which I will plainly state I have little tolerance for. I just don't see it. The interpretation of laws is mostly determining how individual rights and freedom of religious expression can intersect. And I will admit that job is getting tougher every day.

 

[Bambistew]

Politics isn't controversial enough for this site? Haha

I love how religious people blame others for the issues we have as a nation. Those issues exist with or without religion, I guess unless you live in a place like Saudi Arabia. Be careful what you wish for... I'm sure many will disagree, but why are 90+% of inmates Christians?

I saw a poll the other day, being atheist was the bottom of the electable barrel. People would elect a Transgender Christian over an atheist. I would say it proves the US is still one nation under God. Haha

 

[Muskeez]

I believe the reason many inmates are Christians is because they were either atheist or something else when they were causing trouble and after time in prison have seen the need for some hope and something positive in their life.

 

[Mudder]

This idea has been posted a few times on this thread. I think the founders wanted to prevent both the Government's involvement in religion and religions' involvement in government. The two probably lead to a similar result, but I think there is a subtle difference in the views. Today, I often hear claims of "religion/christianity being under attack", which I will plainly state I have little tolerance for. I just don't see it. The interpretation of laws is mostly determining how individual rights and freedom of religious expression can intersect. And I will admit that job is getting tougher every day.

There is a group of fanatics. that want to expunge religion from society, And their starting place is anything to do with the government and their argument is the separation of church and state.

In 1934 the Death Valley post of the VFW (mostly Railroad workers and lung damaged veterans) erected a seven-foot-high cross in a remote part of Death Valley in commemoration of those fallen in the War. IMO more a commemorative monument than a religious statement.

"The Cross, Erected in Memory of the Dead of All Wars, * * * Erected 1934 by Members of Veterans of Foreign [sic] Wars, Death Valley post-2884."

This Cross was erected way before Death Valley became a National Park (1994). Some female progressive atheist Park Ranger (fresh out of college) complained that the Cross caused her grief because it was now on Federal lands. She found some support in the Atheist movement, a Lawyer and filed suit to have the Cross removed. While the case was in litigation the cross was covered with a wooden plywood box. The litigation was eventually decided in favor of the VFW after decades (rumor), Then someone stole the Cross, it has disappeared. Who stole the Cross and why, your guess is as good as mine. It seems funny it happened soon after the radical Atheists lost their case (rumor not verified).

Don't kid yourself, Christianity is under attack by a group of fanatic Atheists, in an almost religious fervor, to expunge religion not only from government but from society in general. The Democratic party has welcomed them into the fold. The Socialists (Commie lite) want to replace diety with government, part of the dogma. The very far left want to abolish morals by expunging religion.

A loose coalition with common goals. All under the Democrat umbrella.

 

[Valley1320]

My definition of a Christian is simply: I'm a sinner, God forgives me, and I'm gonna try to live my life for Him. I'm actually quite shocked at the number of non-Christian comments above. I guess I thought we were mostly a Christian nation, (As in most people in the US being Christians) although I have seen that changing more the last couple decades. I am the first to admit that I lead a sheltered life here in the Midwest and I like it that way. I believe only God the Father could have created this universe and all of it's complexities. Satan is the one that tempted Adam and Eve and every sin since that time is because of the fall of man, and us making bad choices. I believe that the Bible is the only rule book and that it is 100% true and accurate. If we have no rule book to follow then everyone makes up whatever rules they want to live by on their own. Whatever feels good to them is fine but each person has different rules and we then have troubles. We all fail miserably and sin every day but thankfully we have God's grace (undeserved love) so that if we believe in Him we will get to go to heaven when our time on this earth is done. Many people ask for Gods help when times get tough, but ignore Him the rest of their lives, then blame Him when things don't go their way. I'm glad that we live in a country where we are all have freedom of religion.

Well said!!

 

[rwc101]

I believe the reason many inmates are Christians is because they were either atheist or something else when they were causing trouble and after time in prison have seen the need for some hope and something positive in their life.

Have any research behind this theory? I think this is a prime example of things Christians throughout the country say everyday without realizing how deeply insulting it is to people of other or no faith. If you're going to blame crime on peoples' beliefs or lack thereof you better have some overwhelming data behind it. I am not lost, unhappy, or lacking in hope because I do not believe in your religion.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Any follower of Christ who cares if a cross was stolen, maybe really aren’t who they think they are.

The “assault on Christianity” (note how no one complains about assault and Islam) has been ongoing forever. For anyone to think it should stop is entirely contrary to what the Bible says.

 

[Mudder]

Have any research behind this theory? I think this is a prime example of things Christians throughout the country say everyday without realizing how deeply insulting it is to people of other or no faith. If you're going to blame crime on peoples' beliefs or lack thereof you better have some overwhelming data behind it. I am not lost, unhappy, or lacking in hope because I do not believe in your religion.

I think it is more about people who have lost their way, than whether they have faith or not. The roots of our laws are grounded in religious laws.

Compare our laws with Sharia laws or with someone with few self-imposed restrictions.

IMO without these laws, we wouldn't be what we are today. A lot of examples of failed societies.

Up until my mid-twenties I was on the road to prison. I got some counseling, from of all things, a Jewish Rabbi. He didn't try to convert me, he just explained some basic theology and the reason behind many of our laws. Morality 101. I'd call myself a Born Again Chrisitan. It worked for me and has worked for many others.

If you can keep it between the guardrails without religious guidance more power to you.

 

[Randi]

I am NOT preaching to anyone

The OP ask "if" America is still a Christian Nation ? Some have suggested it never was, others believe it was and still is, some dont believe at all or have different beliefs ( Islam, others ) and thanks to the "framers" of our country, we all have the freedom to decide whether or not to believe ( Religion or no Religion ) or in what way we believe . ( Christian, Islam, Buddhist, etc )

Religion can be a touchy subject to discuss and I think it speaks well of this forum and the members of this forum that we have discussed it without discourse.

Disagreement, of course, but no temper tantrums

 

[rwc101]

I think it is more about people who have lost their way, than whether they have faith or not. The roots of our laws are grounded in religious laws.

Compare our laws with Sharia laws or with someone with few self-imposed restrictions.

IMO without these laws, we wouldn't be what we are today. A lot of examples of failed societies.

Up until my mid-twenties I was on the road to prison. I got some counseling, from of all things, a Jewish Rabbi. He didn't try to convert me, he just explained some basic theology and the reason behind many of our laws. Morality 101. I'd call myself a Born Again Chrisitan. It worked for me and has worked for many others.

If you can keep it between the guardrails without religious guidance more power to you.

Few of our laws are based on religious laws. 7 of the 10 commandments are not laws. The remaining three are nearly universally held regardless of the religion in question which suggests they are based on logical reasoning rather than divine proclamation.

 

[Trial153]

There is a group of fanatics. that want to expunge religion from society, And their starting place is anything to do with the government and their argument is the separation of church and state.

In 1934 the Death Valley post of the VFW (mostly Railroad workers and lung damaged veterans) erected a seven-foot-high cross in a remote part of Death Valley in commemoration of those fallen in the War. IMO more a commemorative monument than a religious statement.

"The Cross, Erected in Memory of the Dead of All Wars, * * * Erected 1934 by Members of Veterans of Foreign [sic] Wars, Death Valley post-2884."

This Cross was erected way before Death Valley became a National Park (1994). Some female progressive atheist Park Ranger (fresh out of college) complained that the Cross caused her grief because it was now on Federal lands. She found some support in the Atheist movement, a Lawyer and filed suit to have the Cross removed. While the case was in litigation the cross was covered with a wooden plywood box. The litigation was eventually decided in favor of the VFW after decades (rumor), Then someone stole the Cross, it has disappeared. Who stole the Cross and why, your guess is as good as mine. It seems funny it happened soon after the radical Atheists lost their case (rumor not verified).

Don't kid yourself, Christianity is under attack by a group of fanatic Atheists, in an almost religious fervor, to expunge religion not only from government but from society in general. The Democratic party has welcomed them into the fold. The Socialists (Commie lite) want to replace diety with government, part of the dogma. The very far left want to abolish morals by expunging religion.

A loose coalition with common goals. All under the Democrat umbrella.

Congrats. You managed to get almost them all in one post. Atheists, Democrats, Socalists and Communists...I almost forget progressives!

 

[rwc101]

Yeah, man. It's bad when people what to remove others from society based on their beliefs.

List of people burned as heretics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Muskeez]

RWC, if you see my first words they say, "I believe", so no I have not done a bunch of senseless research to support my belief but I don't feel it's a stretch to imagine that there is a higher percentage of inmates that are Christians after some time in the clink than they were before they got there. If such research would make you feel better I will surely try to look into that tonight when I have more time.
I also did not blame the lack of religion for their crimes, but since you have opened up that can, look back at my first post. I do believe that without a common rule book, the Bible, that people will make up their own morals, values and rules as to what feels best for them at the current point in time. It will feel good, to them, but may not be the best for their fellow citizens and surely won't be good for their salvation if they believe in such a thing. Lets not get punchy with each other here, this discussion has gone quite well, and if the topic of religion bothers someone it's not much different than Thanksgiving dinner, get up and leave the room. As I have stated these are my beliefs, we're both entitled to our own. Peace be with you!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Congrats. You managed to get almost them all in one post. Atheists, Democrats, Socalists and Communists...I almost forget progressives!

It kills me to see this. And then read quotes like this

A loose coalition with common goals. All under the Democrat umbrella.

And then I try to reconcile that with our current POTUS, who contradicts so many of the teachings of Jesus.