Any Montanans frustrated with population growth, sprawl, rising prices, etc?

[Nameless Range]

I don't believe it's possible to preserve the things you most love about MT.

A friend of mine once wrote this about a wild chunk of country he visits every year doing snotel work:

“I am going to miss it this year, unless something opens up for me. That trip has been an important re-set button for my life in past years. I can still see that country in my mind right now- like a talisman reminding that some of the world is doing really really great.”

I have thought about this statement many times since he wrote it. We can all have our own talismans, and for some they might be big chunks of undeveloped country, and for others it might just be some miserable hillside out their back door. For others still, it may be incredibly acute, like an individual tree. I like this way of thinking because it is scalable.

Or maybe put another way, we can still make decisions and fight for things that people will appreciate long after we are worm food. We die with the world we love, necessarily, but people keep on loving it.

 

[hank4elk]

"Welcome to California,now gow home". The bumper sticker did not stop it. Conservation easements and eco friendly developments did not ease it. Wise planning became a job name that was a local joke.

1975 post Nam bouncing around the west trying to "get it together", I was in Basin,MT with choices. The construction job had shut down for the winter in late Oct. Had an offer to run a construction crew in Bozeman the next year, that 1200ac ranch on the Bitterroot was still there for $12k begging me to spend it...my nest egg.
I was a rich 20 yr old by standards of the times. MT was an empty vastness. Redneck Dems ran the place. No outsider was welcome. The fishing was OK. The hunting so so from what I had seen in one fall. It was not going to boom for a long time in my vision and I was in the building trades...and then the letter came.

Mom had one request of me,nay it was a demand. Get yur ass home by Nov. and your oldest sisters wedding. She had never demanded anything of me besides get home safe, be me and do my best.

I was not rich back in CA. Hell, no one was all of a sudden. But my bro said we could make it in that little place we called our retreat. SLO. He was right.
It was drive by, no-one home rural, affordable, great fishing & hunting,surfing, with girls...and it was bound to wake up and boom.
The county had half the population of Bozeman in 1975.

12 years ago I had a similar choice to make. Where to move? I went to the most remote place in NM. No fishing really, decent hunting,affordable sort of and no people. Trade offs. 3k population in 7500sq mi.,with elk booming.

The county has grown by 500 in the last 2 years now. All I can do is just remember the good times in the good places.

Like my 1st bull that fall and a buck in that unknown MT basin. Damn that fishing was really good on the beaverponds. And that place on the Bitterroot....

 

[Sytes]

Memories never fade. In some cases, better with age.

Current setting and proceeding forward... I'll take Randy's comment, "You're likely correct in that assessment. But, many of us are stubborn enough to try."

Our families of past time likely had similar experiences...

 

[Jason73]

If it's any consolation it's also happening in southwest Colorado. Just know you aren't alone up in Montana. Although farming dental floss sounds intriguing, it's also the reason I bought property in a fairly remote area in another state. When it's time to go it's good to have a plan...and a place.

 

[Pagosa]

NW Montana is way different than when I first visited in 95, and much different big game hunting experience that what I had in 2001-2005. We moved to Kalispell in 2013 and built our property. Hunting every year has gotten significantly worse, mostly since 2017. I can’t imagine the locals that have seen the demise of the over hunting in areas like the North Fork, wolf takeover, and property value increases. Or the Crows/Other Indian tribes that lost their land due to western expansion.
Property values are so upside down that we can rent out our house, live/work somewhere else that is affordable (buy productive land), has great public land hunting/fishing opportunities, and can go on a western hunt for a few weeks each fall in a good areas like WY, Colorado, NM, or limited area in Montana. We can always visit western Montana, go to Ft Peck fishing, go into the Bob Marshal on horseback, coon/cat hunt in good areas out east, berry pick, etc or any other activity/area and not have to deal with the daily living/working around the jackwagons. I don’t see this migration changing anytime soon. I am personally excited for the new heaven/earth.

 

[Nameless Range]

Migration report places Montana No. 1 for inbound moves; Missoula and Billings fueling growth

While inbound migration to Montana slowed in 2021, the state remained No. 1 in its overall proportion of inbound moves when compared to outbound moves, according to a report released last month. Missoula and Billings are fueling the growth with the largest percentage of new residents.

missoulacurrent.com

This is why the angst.

 

[SAJ-99]

Migration report places Montana No. 1 for inbound moves; Missoula and Billings fueling growth

While inbound migration to Montana slowed in 2021, the state remained No. 1 in its overall proportion of inbound moves when compared to outbound moves, according to a report released last month. Missoula and Billings are fueling the growth with the largest percentage of new residents.

missoulacurrent.com

This is why the angst.

Net moves per capita. Denominator effect?

 

[TOGIE]

here's an interesting stat - percentage in versus percentage out. not exactly what you'd expect (well, maybe except for the outbound) based on what you hear about western states in the news:

Moving In
The top inbound states of 2021 were:

1. Vermont
2. South Dakota
3. South Carolina
4. West Virginia
5. Florida
6. Alabama
7. Tennessee
8. Oregon
9. Idaho
10. Rhode Island

Moving Out
The top outbound states for 2021 were:

1. New Jersey
2. Illinois
3. New York
4. Connecticut
5. California
6. Michigan
7. Massachusetts
8. Louisiana
9. Ohio
10. Nebraska

Study: Top 10 states people are moving to – and leaving

Americans moving to new states in 2021 opted in large numbers for uncrowded destinations, according to a study by United Van Lines.

www.newsnationnow.com

i'm personally most curious about the raw number of people that moved there, which i haven't found yet, i know it's somewhere, but i've barely looked. i.e. pure raw amount of people that moved to the state and who had the highest number.

seems every state puts together a stat to say they're number one in migration-in problems, but obviously, not every state can be number one.

 

[SAJ-99]

South Dakota #2? huh? I have to question the methodology a little. If not, there has to be an explanation that isn't the expected reasons.

Random quotes from https://www.keloland.com/news/local...ulation-grows-by-6750-to-pass-200000-in-2021/
"The 2020 U.S. Census showed South Dakota grew by 8.9% from 2010 to 2020."
"The City of Sioux Falls Planning and Development Services says the total population estimate for Sioux Falls is 202,600. Using data from the U.S. Census Bureau and local building permit numbers, the city says it grew by 6,750 people in 2021 which was a growth rate of 3.45%. "

 

[RobG]

They made a reality TV show about buying houses in MT. That's F'd up.

Episodes

Find the best of Living Big Sky from HGTV

www.hgtv.com

 

[MTLabrador]

They made a reality TV show about buying houses in MT. That's F'd up.

Episodes

Find the best of Living Big Sky from HGTV

www.hgtv.com

That just put me in a very bad mood. I’m going to go shoot a wolf this afternoon in protest.

 

[TOGIE]

South Dakota #2? huh? I have to question the methodology a little. If not, there has to be an explanation that isn't the expected reasons.

Random quotes from https://www.keloland.com/news/local...ulation-grows-by-6750-to-pass-200000-in-2021/
"The 2020 U.S. Census showed South Dakota grew by 8.9% from 2010 to 2020."
"The City of Sioux Falls Planning and Development Services says the total population estimate for Sioux Falls is 202,600. Using data from the U.S. Census Bureau and local building permit numbers, the city says it grew by 6,750 people in 2021 which was a growth rate of 3.45%. "

i think the methodology is sound, but it quickly paints a distorted picture.

it's literally pecentage in versus percentage out. so i assume it works like this: say south dakota literally only registers 1 person leaving and 4 people moving there. boom 80% migration in rate and you're at the top of the list.

mean while say colorado had 200,000 move in and 100,000 leave and you have 66% in rate and south dakota gets to claim they have a bigger migration problem than colorado haha

 

[Nameless Range]

i think the methodology is sound, but it quickly paints a distorted picture.

it's literally pecentage in versus percentage out. so i assume it works like this: say south dakota literally only registers 1 person leaving and 4 people moving there. boom 80% migration in rate and you're at the top of the list.

mean while say colorado had 200,000 move in and 100,000 leave and you have 66% in rate and south dakota gets to claim they have a bigger migration problem than colorado haha

That is a good point, but In terms of relative change to the folks who have and do live there, I don't know how distorted the picture is.

 

[TOGIE]

That is a good point, but In terms of relative change to the folks who have and do live there, I don't know how distorted the picture is.

absolutely. which definitely is the crux of the issue.

 

[Irrelevant]

i think the methodology is sound, but it quickly paints a distorted picture.

it's literally pecentage in versus percentage out. so i assume it works like this: say south dakota literally only registers 1 person leaving and 4 people moving there. boom 80% migration in rate and you're at the top of the list.

mean while say colorado had 200,000 move in and 100,000 leave and you have 66% in rate and south dakota gets to claim they have a bigger migration problem than colorado haha

But shouldn't it be

People in -People out / Population of Dakota?

 

[TOGIE]

But shouldn't it be

People in -People out / Population of Dakota?

i mean, if that's how one wanted to do it, then yes.

but at least that link of mine seems to literally be tracking "moves"

what percentage moved inbound versus what percentage moved outbound. paints a picture, but a very difficult one to truly understand contextually, obviously.

this whole sitaution is like real estate to me -- every year it seems every non-flyover state has some article claiming they have the hottest real estate market in the country. obviously though, not every city can be the single hottest market in the country. montana is always claiming to have the biggest population "blow up" problem these days, as is idaho, as is colorado. the devil is always in the details. by 6 different metrics they can all be right to their claim.

so really, shits blowing up everywhere and it sucks.

 

[Cornbread]

I feel for Montanas and Idahoans and Wyomer's. Take a number though! At least you have shtty winters to scare them off. We have great weather year-round. Although maybe our summers send them back up north. "Your summers are so hot and humid". Summers are my favorite; peace and quiet. I bought a sticker for my truck "The Locals Hate You!!" It's on Amazon. Join me.

 

[lastlight]

inb4 the 100k Ukrainians we are taking end up all in MT- they are used to cold. ID is already full of previous refugees. Come one come all to the US we aren’t done building parking lots and subdivisions just yet! Who cares about winter range!

 

[MT Super Puncher]

As a lifelong resident, I never thought seriously about living somewhere else until now. MT has become completely unrecognizable. The problem is the people who migrate here, for reasons already stated above, and then attempt to change what makes MT the place they wanted to move to in the first place. The population centers of the state has become less cordial and pleasant, and there's a push to change MT to become something it shouldn't be. Frustrating no doubt, and sad to see the Last Best Place becoming just another place.

 

[Gr8bawana]

As a lifelong resident, I never thought seriously about living somewhere else until now. MT has become completely unrecognizable. The problem is the people who migrate here, for reasons already stated above, and then attempt to change what makes MT the place they wanted to move to in the first place. The population centers of the state has become less cordial and pleasant, and there's a push to change MT to become something it shouldn't be. Frustrating no doubt, and sad to see the Last Best Place becoming just another place.

I'm sure the native Americans who lived there before the settlers came felt the same way.