Gastro Gnome - Eat Better Wherever

ALL-TERRAIN VEHICLES EMERGE AS BOW-HUNTING ISSUE

Ten Bears

New member
Joined
May 20, 2004
Messages
2,997
Location
North Idaho
DENVER -- Twenty-six years ago, Glen Hinshaw wrote an article for the "National Sportsman's Digest" lamenting an increased reliance on four-wheel-drive vehicles and a decreased reliance on hunting skills. "What I've seen is we have a generation, or two generations, of sportsmen, some of whom have learned only to shift gears and drive around the woods," said Hinshaw, now the education director for the Southwest Region of the Colorado Division of Wildlife. "Some hunters really don't have the hunting skills of their grandfather," Hinshaw said. "We really need to work through hunter education and re-instill those skills, such as stalking."

In November that issue once again emerged, as the Colorado Bowhunters Association approached the Wildlife Commission, which oversees the Division, about limiting all-terrain vehicle use during the bow-hunting season. An association official said the group is not seeking to eliminate ATV use during hunting season, but does want to reduce its effect on a sport that requires patience and stealth easily disrupted by internal combustion engines in the back country.

All-terrain vehicles, or ATV's, are defined as motorcycles and the three- or four-wheel, off-road vehicles significantly lighter than full-size jeeps and trucks. Their use has expanded motorized access into back-country areas, and many of the National Forests in Colorado are now reviewing travel plans which may limit their use. But the Division of Wildlife is concerned with issues revolving around hunting.

"As much as anything it's a conflict in the style of hunting and the timing issue -- when you use all-terrain vehicles, and when you don't, to get into back-country areas," Division Regulations Manger John Smeltzer said. "It's the misuse of ATV's during hunting season that is probably the biggest issue. "We can bring people together to talk about these problems but this is a land-use issue," Smeltzer said. But overall, "ATV use on pubic land, other than Division property is not within Division Jurisdiction."

Jerry Abboud -- chairman of an ATV-user group, the Colorado Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition -- agreed that the problem may be based on hunters using ATV's rather than ATV users as a whole. "These could be distinct user groups," he said. The U.S. Forest Services San Juan/Rio Grande District actually expanded ATV use for hunting in 1990 by allowing the vehicles to travel outside the established trails -- but only after noon and only to pick up game, noted Ron Jablanski, the district's Public Affairs Officer. "For the most part, we had good compliance with the rules, but administratively it's difficult to enforce with the people who choose to abuse it," he said. ATV owners actually using their vehicles to hunt simply tell enforcement officers they are picking up game, he noted. "It also makes enforcement of regular travel rules difficult," he noted. In the final draft of the district's 10-year management plan, the use of ATV's off trail during hunting season has been eliminated.

Mike Stone, Hunter Education Administrator for the Division said it is often only a perception of hunters that their peers using ATV's are actually using them to hunt. "In rifle season, hunting with ATV's can occur -- we have written a few citations. It's a problem but not a big one," he said. "It's just a question of good outdoor ethics: ATV's are A-OK to use to go from the camp to the hunting spot, or to carry out game," he said. "We are constantly educating people on the use of ATV's in out hunter education classes."

Carrying a loaded rifle in or on any vehicle is illegal in Colorado, meaning the chamber must be empty. Failure to abide by that law will cost hunters $68 and 15 points against their license -- 20 points within five years results in revocation. Failure to abide by that law often has more serious consequences. "There have been a few fatal accidents involving a loaded rifle on an ATV," said Stone, who also keeps the Division records on hunting accidents.

Bob Radocy, the bowhunters' liaison with the Division, noted that hunters using ATVs in search of game can intrude on secluded camps, ruining carefully laid hunting plans. ATVs can also disturb the bedding and movement of big game, such as elk. "We solicited both our own members and also (Division personnel) around the state and our survey indicated there are growing problems in the disturbance of hunters and wildlife." Radocy said. In the survey of 400 bow hunter respondents, 43 percent saw a "significant" increase of ATV use during hunting and 23 percent saw an "overwhelming" increase. Many of the 136 Division employees who responded saw the issue in much the same light, with 55 percent seeing a significant, and 16 percent an overwhelming, increase.

The issue often takes on an almost range-war status in some sections of Colorado, noted Bill Haggerty, the Public Information Officer in the Division's Northwest Region office in Grand Junction. "We have had numerous complaints, ... and many of these people are coming in really steamed," he said. Both the bow hunters and the ATV coalition hope the Division will assist in efforts to reduce conflict between the two groups. "We want to work with the Division to identify the user group (causing the problem)," said Abboud, chairman of the ATV coalition. But, "the kind of things a hunter (on an ATV) is likely to do, may have nothing to do with a rider who just happen to be on some trail during a hunting month."
http://www.atving.com/editor/general/colhunt.htm
 
I've been saying all along that fatassed ATV riders aren't real hunters. They're nothing but road hunters too lazy and outta shape to walk a couple hundred yards. Ban all ATVs during hunting season except for certified handicapped hunters.
 
If that's the case IT, why don't you walk a couple of hundred yards away from the road and hunt away from them? Could you wear some mule deer looking clothes this season? :D
 
Do you have any mule deer looking clothes? I could get you some.
:D
 
They're nothing but road hunters too lazy and outta shape to walk a couple hundred yards.
I have no problems with road hunters and whether they are in a pick-up or a quad makes no difference to me. The only problem I have is when they leave the road and impact those folks that are not afraid to get away from these roads.
 
I've had turkey hunts ruined when I was working on a gobbler a couple hundred yards from a road and the ATV riders came by, yelling to each other as loud as they could so they'd be able to hear themselves over the engine noise. One time was at 7AM the first morning of turkey season!

I was trying to get away from the roads, but I have to work a gobbler wherever I can find one.
 
IT, you walk to the gobblers? Isn't that how turkey hunters get shot by other turkey hunters? I used a decoy and call. Are you sure you weren't being decoyed or called? :D :D
 
There was an article in the paper here a couple of weeks ago about the DOW considering limiting licenses during the archery season. One reason was that the elk are being pushed off the forest onto private property during the primitive seasons and the DOW isn't getting a good harvest during the rifle seasons. One reason the elk are being pushed off is that the number of archery hunters has exploded. Do you think ATV use has any affect?

Sixty-six percent of bow hunters reported at least a significant increase in ATV use during hunting, and 71% of DOW employees. That editorial must be old, because Bill Haggerty retired a couple of years ago. I'm sure it's no better now. Wouldn't you rather see them limit ATV use for hunting rather than limit hunting license numbers?

Oak
 
Ten, Idiot. When I hear a gobbler I approach and get set up in position to call. I know that's probably hard for you to comprehend, but I get more enjoyment out of the hunt that way. Try it sometime and you might find it more interesting than trying to run them over with your ATV.
 
IT, I have no trouble blasting those exotic piles of s4!t. When you said you "worked toward a gobbler", I was reminded of a hunting accident here in North Idaho a year or three ago. One turkey hunter was moving toward a gobbler, and another had heard the gobbler near him, and when he saw the movement of the moving turkey hunter, he shot the moving turkey hunter. Neither knew the other was there and the turkey got away.

OAK, are they talking about an increase in the number of hunters using ATVs or just ATV use in the woods during the season? Who is monitoring the off season use and how? Around here the number of hunters using ATVs has grown over the past few years, doubled or tripled, but there are ATVs everywhere you go all spring and summer also.
 
In the survey of 400 bow hunter respondents, 43 percent saw a "significant" increase of ATV use during hunting and 23 percent saw an "overwhelming" increase. Many of the 136 Division employees who responded saw the issue in much the same light, with 55 percent seeing a significant, and 16 percent an overwhelming, increase.
I'd say they're talking about ATV use by hunters. Non-hunters are not the ones pushing the elk off the forest, as the large herds are not showing up on private land until hunting season starts (at least in the areas I'm familiar with). Some units in CO already went to limited archery tags several years ago, just because of the problem of hunters pushing elk onto private property. Now the majority of them will stay up, until opening day of the first rifle season.

Here's a picture I took on the opening evening of the first rifle season a couple of years ago. These elk are on private land, about two miles below the NF. The night before the season opened, there was about 30 head on this hillside. This is in a unit that had already gone to limited archery tags.

Elk_herd.sized.jpg


Oak
 
I'd say it's time to change the opener date by a week. Maybe let a limited (controlled) hunt start a week ahead of the general hunt.
I would wager that the movement to private land is triggered by an increase in human activity in the woods,and founded ATV use in general. I have a freind who used to live in CO, and he claims that he had to figure out the migration route to private land, and then position himself along that route each year, and this was many years ago.

Good photo. No use getting permission to hunt on the private land?
 
I just found a place where I was at today and some one with a 4 wheeler, cut a trail that goes for a long way, and right thru one of the areas I hunt.... I think this is going to be fun.... ;)
 
I should have mentioned, it was 4 miles beyond the line where these things are allowed... :eek: :D
 
Ten, "When you said you "worked toward a gobbler", I was reminded ........."

Ten, That's a perfect example of your lack of reading comprehension. Go back and find where I said I "worked toward a gobbler". It doesn't exist. Never did. You just can't read. I don't know exactly what's wrong with your head, but it's real serious.
 
That first rifle season is totally limited as well...because of the problem of elk moving off the forest. The general season starts a week later. Let me tell you, I grew up in this area. Those elk didn't move down in the numbers they do now 20 years ago. That hillside, and the lower country nearby, is winter range. Those elk sometimes move down there in September during the archery season. That hill is eaten bare by December, and then you've got problems with elk getting into haystacks, etc. I could have shot two or three cows last New Year's if I'd wanted to, right out of one rancher's haystack. I didn't feel like paying the thirty bucks apiece to walk out behind the house and shoot them like beef cows, but somebody surely did. We shouldn't be having depredation problems at the end of December. The drought may play a part, but when the elk are on winter range in September, it's going to have an effect down the road.

Oh yeah, no use asking the owner of the above hillside for hunting permission. He charges top dollar to a few high rollers a year that come in and shoot 250"-320" bulls on his place. They shoot maybe 15 bulls on 20,000 acres.

Oak
 
If the land owner charges, he/she shouldn't have any room to file a depredation complaint. My freind grew up in CO and moved up here 15-20 years ago. I have never hunted there,probably never will, and I can only relay to you what he has said to me. He used to return to CO to hunt elk, but doesn't anymore. In his opinion, it's the increased presence of people (hunters) that starts the early migration, that, and a stagnant opener.
 
MTNTOUGH - Use promo code RANDY for 30 days free

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
113,621
Messages
2,027,080
Members
36,250
Latest member
Scared of Grizzly Bears
Back
Top